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Warranty Question and a few others

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#21 ·
Just tell them it's their cock-up on their dime. End of.
 
Discussion starter · #22 ·
Joe, I know you mean well.....but dammn...


I used to be an honorable word of mouth guy.....until today
What happened to honor?

If this process walks me into the ground I will become a cynical bonehead

The sad part is that you are one hundred percent correct.....
 
#23 ·
I am a word of mouth guy too. Earlier this year I spent $950 with an automotive vendor who provided me with the wrong product.

Despite acres of documentation and clear admittance on their part that they sent the wrong product, I spent 7 months and probably 20 hours of time trying to get a refund. I think I may now have it (had to escalate it to my credit card company).

I'm still a word of mouth guy, especially with people who treat me well, but when things start going down hill it's time to stay reasonable but thoroughly protect yourself.

As a service provider myself there is a big difference between a customer complaining and a customer presenting a documented case to me of my company failing.
 
Discussion starter · #24 ·
Joe, fair enough......
big difference between a customer complaining and a customer presenting a documented case to me of my company fail
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Would it be fair to presume that because of the fact that I presented the dealer on day one with both a copy of my original warranty and a copy of the flyer which clarifies what is covered under gold, gold plus and platinum that my intention was 100 percent to have any and all work covered by the warranty? I saw the copies of the above in the service persons hands just this morning with a pile of other papers.

The onus then falls onto the dealer to clarify why something would not be covered under said warranty and that I would be billed for it directly.

Now, I know that drive shafts (which the carrier bearings are well known to fail and extensively written up all over the internet) are covered under the platinum warranty.

There is no reason for me to be billed for the work and labor for this well know failure of this car part.

As for the exhaust temperature sensors.....well that is now on hold pending the opinion of an insurance adjuster. If said person does not authorize this type of repair under my platinum warranty I will not have it done.

Now after all this is said should I go back and request to have a copy of the whole stash of papers that I saw in the service person's hands this morning? They might say that I'm not entitled to have the workshop documentation?

I think that this case is pretty self explanatory and that I'm not just a customer complaining because I have nothing better to do......and I know that's not what you said :)
 
#25 ·
Here's what I would do:

I would go in and explain that you had been told the person you had been working with to fix and have warranty payment conducted on your car is no longer there, then request a copy of all the paperwork THEY HAVE on your case so that you can go home and reconcile it with your own paperwork to see if they have anything missing or different.

Present yourself as an understanding customer who is trying to work through the fact that one of their employees didn't follow through and didn't document things well. This is who you are, after all.

Get a copy of all their paperwork and then keep that as a physical representation of what they have on you - including your warranty.

This will also help you to establish what you need. If they have a copy of your warranty and the driveshaft was fixed by them, that should be covered under warranty 100% and there should be no more than a 1 hour diagnosis fee.

Etc.

Don't make assumptions and get yourself a copy of their entire packet. The fact you "saw something" sounds suspicious even to me, if you were presenting your case to me. Don't just physically see they have a copy - get a copy of your records since they admit the person handling your case left and was....incomplete :)
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
The fact you "saw something" sounds suspicious even to me, if you were presenting your case to me
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Just for interest sake, the manager person whom I spoke with and whose title I didn't know told me that he would call Fidelity Warranty Services as he had my contract information on file. The "saw something" becomes fact. :)
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
JoeFromPA said:
Anyupdate?
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I went to the dealer Tuesday afternoon and spoke to the new service clerk who took over my file since the other clerk was let go for some reason....nothing to do with me btw. She must have screwed up a few other clients work as well. I picked up something in this line from a comment made to me by an employee.

Anyway I requested a copy of the file on my vehicle from the service clerk since my first appointment in early August. I was told that she could not give me a copy until the work order has been closed. After a long discussion she read the notes about the drive shaft to me. It clearly stated that the center support bearing was broken and a rubber 'sheath' (can't remember the exact word she used) was torn.

I just wanted confirmation and paper proof that the drive shaft was replaced due to it being faulty seeing that the work was done over three weeks ago now. I assumed that the broken drive shaft would be long gone into a dump somewhere and there would be no proof for the warranty adjuster if he wanted to see it seeing that the original clerk never opened a claim first or last.

I was quite happy that there was documentation to be seen. I proceeded to request to talk to the service manager himself. At first I was declined but I politely requested of the clerk just a few minutes of his time. Apparently he agreed the second time and let me into his office. I requested a copy of the file on my vehicle from him which he declined stating the same as the clerk did. I asked about the drive shaft and proof that it was broken for the adjuster to inspect should he request to do so. The manager assured me that the dealership would not replace the drive shaft if it was not broken. He proceeded to read the notes that was read to me by the clerk stating the drive shaft was indeed broken. I asked if the broken core would go to the dump or to VW and he stated that it would go to VW. I asked if the was a paper trail to the broken core should the adjuster ask to see it and he replied affirmative.

I politely stated that my intention was not to make the dealership employees lives difficult but that I was clearly in a predicament seeing that the ball was fumbled by the original service clerk. Therefore the reason why I was asking all the questions as well as copies of their paperwork on my vehicle. The service manager assured me that he would do everything in his power to aid the adjuster in getting my drive shaft covered by the warranty.

He asked if the dealer should go ahead and take the engine down to replace the broken exhaust temperature sensor's'. He used plural but my vcds reading in July which prompted the original appointment told me there was only one broken. Anyway, I declined the work pending the warranty adjusters opinion and authorization. I asked him to ask the adjuster whether the warranty would cover a new engine should they decline to authorize the work and then possibly fatal damage happen to the engine due to the work not being done.

I was told to wait a few days for the adjuster to get back to them and have not spoken to them since.....just waiting patiently. I was told that the adjuster said that he would get back to them by Thursday which is yesterday.

I am a little puzzled by the fact that even after all this I was still asked by the service manager whether the dealer should go ahead to take down the engine to replace the sensors even though the warranty adjuster clearly had not authorized the work yet. Should it not be dealer's policy to suggest talking to the adjuster first so that the client would not be held responsible for the cost. It seems like the policy is to try and suck you in to making a decision that favors the dealer and then you could be held responsible for all kinds of extra costs. I presume that the amount of time authorized by the warranties to do work on our vehicles is less than what they want to bill for so the dealers will suck you in so they can do double billing. Maybe I'm wrong, but I sense something of the sort.

As of right now the dealer employees tried to assure me and the clerk and the service manager were both very kind and polite even though my requests for copies of their documentation was denied. My reality is that I don't have a clue where I stand except that at least a claim has been opened and that they were actually in contact with a warranty adjuster.

I can only sit and wait for a telephone call and their decision.
 
#30 ·
You have to understand that it is YOUR warranty. The dealer is asking whether you want the work performed and assuming the warranty will cover it, as stated. The risk of the warranty denying the work ultimately lies on you, not them. They are willing to communicate with the warranty company about what was wrong and what work was performed, but this is not an insurance claim - it is a retroactive payment for work performed assuming the work performed falls under the covered provisions.
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
JoeFromPA said:
You have to understand that it is YOUR warranty. The dealer is asking whether you want the work performed and assuming the warranty will cover it, as stated. The risk of the warranty denying the work ultimately lies on you, not them. They are willing to communicate with the warranty company about what was wrong and what work was performed, but this is not an insurance claim - it is a retroactive payment for work performed assuming the work performed falls under the covered provisions.
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I understand that. There are a few problems though.

1) I the consumer like most others never deal with warranties and have no clue about the correct procedure to follow. I don't know what is covered and what not even though I have the best warranty available at the time.

2) The dealer deals with warranties on a daily basis and I do understand that there are multiple tiers of different warranties. The dealer, dealing with these things so often should supply the client with information so he can make an informed decision.

2a...You the client should call the warranty company and inform them of a problem with your vehicle and they will then in turn suggest whatever it is that they suggest. They may inform you of what diagnostic costs they may or may not cover.

2b...I the dealer will call and deal with the warranty adjuster and inform you the client what the next procedure is in diagnosis and what costs you the client will be responsible for. They should also tell you that this particular type of work has 100% chance of being covered or zero according to the adjuster and their experience.

They deal with it often enough to give the client an informed decision and not just tell you that they will do the work and after the fact you suddenly notice that you will be responsible for a $12 000 bill if or when the work is not covered. That to me is not acceptable behavior of a professional dealership. It is backyard mechanics at play.

I have a paid for warranty and I assume it covers everything but brakes and paint and glass etc etc. I want to know within reason what my options are. If the dealer tells me that my drive shaft is not covered and will cost $8 000 to replace I want the option to decline. I will then buy a drive shaft on Ebay for $995 and pay someone locally a few hundred bucks cash to install it. Drive shafts are not rocket science to replace and should not cost $8 000 including whatever labour cost they try to defraud you of!

The same goes for exhaust temperature sensor replacement. I refuse to pay $8 000 to replace a sensor. I would sooner take the exhaust down, do a dpf delete and tune, say frig the warranties and the dealers and drive the car like I stole it until it literally falls apart and then get something other than a VW.

I however want the option to choose to do these things if and when the warranty proves not to be worth the paper it is written on. I also then want to make everyone else who drives these vehicles aware of what they could get themselves into at the hands of the system.

All I ask for is honesty and to be up front with me. I want to know exactly where I stand and that has not been the case.

It is MY warranty yes, but I need to be informed by someone who knows and deals with these things on a daily basis (aka the dealer) what it means and what the procedure options are.

Sorry for the long posts, but I try to explain in the best way that I can. I'm not angry or anything of the sort, I'm just completely in the dark.....but learning fast.

The sad part is that there are thousands of people out there like me....kept in the dark. It should not be that way.
 
#32 ·
For your own good, you should definitely have a full understanding of your policy document and the items covered and not covered.

You should also have a clear understanding of the claims procedure since the warranty company will expect you - the policyholder - to make sure the dealer follows procedure, not the other way around.

It may seem irritating to you, but you need to take control and make sure that you, the dealer AND the warranty company follow the process correctly.

Get everything confirmed by email at all stages especially if it is a complex claim.

As for the shaft, the rubber surround on the bearing breaks up and allows the shaft to move about so the dealer's description of the failure sounds accurate.

I hope you were just plucking a figure out of the air for your $8,000 drive shaft example! Even a brand new shaft fitted by a dealer should not cost a quarter of that figure.

If the engine is dropped under warranty, then I suggest you do what others have done whilst it's down and replace the other sensor at your own expense. Some V10 owners have replaced other stuff too.
 
Discussion starter · #33 ·
I plucked the 8k figure out of thin air. Here is the reality of the situation.

I was quoted for two parts of the drive shaft, front and rear pieces. $1800 for one part and $1400 for the other part. I was told it would be flown in urgently from the US on my bill. That "urgently" took two weeks to turn up but in my ears it means x amount of hundreds of dollars for shipping "urgently" right there. I am also being held responsible for x amount of hours of diagnosis (10++?). Then there is the labour and shop fees for the drive shaft and taxes.

In my mind $8000 could be not too far off
 
#34 ·
James - On the driveshaft at least, it is completely unacceptable for you to present the problem and it to take more than 1-2 hours diagnosis time for a failing driveshaft. Also, don't pay for shipping then given the delivery timelines.

Please understand, and I recognize you are not angry, that your warranty is a contract YOU are under with the warranty company. The VW dealership does not enter into that contract. You are saying to the dealership that the dealership should understand the particulars of your contract and bear responsibilities of explaining it to you and executing it responsibly for you.

Think about that for a second.

I agree that they should work with you to help execute this since they are offering too, and they should give you options and likelihood.

Nonetheless, also realize that they the dealer most likely deal with a wide array of warranties, coverages, warranty-company-adjusters, and situations. They are not legal counsel being paid $400 an hour to give you advice. And again, it's your contract and the contract does not include the dealership.

Just saying man, I want you to have little out of pocket expense and the dealership HAS been screwy here. But you are also putting alot of responsibility on them and you have made clear your expectation is that they'll take care of everything for you.

That's a recipe for being dissapointed.
 
#35 ·
I'm concerned at the hours and numbers you are quoting. Why are two parts involved for example?

Failure of the rubber around the centre bearing can easily be seen as soon as the car is on the lift.

It's 15-20 minutes tops to drive it on, lift, look, give it a shake, drop, and park the car back out in the yard.

Add 10 minutes to go to the parts department to order the new shaft for your car.

The centre bearing comes fitted to the brand new drive shaft: there is no assembly so just one complete part.

Then it's an hour, maybe 90 minutes to remove and replace the shaft.

Add in the time getting the part from the parts department and taking the old shaft out to the dumpster, the fitter's pee and tea breaks, and we're talking two hours at most.
 
#36 ·
Since you stated that there is not another VW dealer near you, it might be time to find a good independent shop. 10+ hours to diagnose a faulty carrier bearing on the drive shaft? Really? If it took them over 10 hours to diagnose the problem, I wonder how long it took them to replace it. And two weeks for express shipping at your expense? Wow!
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Discussion starter · #37 ·
JoeFromPA said:
.
You are saying to the dealership that the dealership should understand the particulars of your contract and bear responsibilities of explaining it to you and executing it responsibly for you
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I am saying and expect that the dealership is way more experienced and qualified than I am to inform me of what my options are. They deal with these things on a daily basis. I expect them to at least assist me in executing the warranty correctly seeing that I am bringing them probably thousands of dollars of business. They know the correct terminology to use with the warranty adjuster. I can say to the adjuster that the car is broken and that something is shaking in the center console when I accelerate.

Think about that for a second.
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Is what I expect really to much to ask of a professional dealership? I must be missing the boat absolutely and completely. The fact of the matter is that I do not have the first inkling of how to get in contact with the warranty people or what to say to them. I also do not have a clue of what the correct procedure is to follow at the dealership. I expect the dealership to inform me of that procedure in an appropriate way. Instead it seems they are intent in finding ways to at least double bill me as much as they can get away with. That is what I sense whether it be right or wrong.

I agree that they should work with you to help execute this since they are offering too, and they should give you options and likelihood.
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Thank you

Nonetheless, also realize that they the dealer most likely deal with a wide array of warranties, coverages, warranty-company-adjusters, and situations. They are not legal counsel being paid $400 an hour to give you advice. And again, it's your contract and the contract does not include the dealership.
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That is exactly why I feel that they are way more capable than I am to find the correct procedure and way forward. They will certainly double bill me a few hours too much and I am quite confident that it will be that $400 you mentioned a few times over.

Just saying man, I want you to have little out of pocket expense and the dealership HAS been screwy here. But you are also putting alot of responsibility on them and you have made clear your expectation is that they'll take care of everything for you.
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I have no problem with some out of pocket expense that is appropriate for the situation. Not at all! I have however been on the line since July and it is now mid September and my car is still not ready. I don't even know what is covered by the warranty and what not. I also don't know yet whether my broken sensors will be replaced or not. You figure I expect too much? The dealership will probably get paid around $12 000 when all is said and done. I honestly don't think I expect too much. Again, maybe I'm missing the boat by far.

That's a recipe for being dissapointed
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I really don't know any more what I should think or not. All I want is for someone at the dealership to be up front with me. I feel like I'm getting screwed with. I've been patient as hell through the whole episode but yet I'm told I still expect too much. Damn, I obviously need to reassess my views and expectations if I'm that far off reality.
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I was also told on Tuesday that the warranty adjuster would be in contact with the dealership by Thursday. They told me that they would call me to inform me of the decisions that were made. It is now Friday evening and everything is closed.....and no call from anyone. I have been extremely patient through this whole procedure and have not raised my voice a single decibel to anyone, yet I now feel that I expect too much and should tone down my expectations. Maybe if I wait another month I will be entitled to ask hard questions.

BTW Joe, I'm not attacking you at all.....just having a conversation with a screen. I do appreciate the comments as it makes me see things in a different perspective. I still have to say that without this thread I would still not have a single clue of what my responsibilities are as to my warranty. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people out there like me. We just don't know, it is not like it is inbread into the gene pool of how to respond to a piece of warranty paper.
 
#38 ·
Hehehe, completely understand and your tone has consistently come across as conversational and not defensive/offensive. Which is tough to do!

Probably the adjusters fault. Or maybe the dealership is dealing with 10 different warranty customers all on Friday and you were last on the list :)
 
Discussion starter · #39 ·
Update: I'm happy!!

First off, Fidelity is a must. If you don't have a Fidelity backed warranty you should seriously consider it if you have a bug infested Touareg!! Platinum is the way to go.

Here is what you should do when your car needs attention:

1) Go to your dealership and authorize time on your checkbook to diagnose the problem

2) Do NOT agree to have work done unless you or preferably the dealership has
been in contact with your warranty people.

You should talk to the service clerk and if they don't agree with you talk to the service manager. He may or may not agree to talk to the warranty people. If he doesn't agree to do so ask him if you could get the diagnosis report on your vehicle, that you agree to pay for if necessary when the time comes for bill payment, and ask him for his direct telephone number. Politely ask that he would talk to the warranty adjuster whom you will give the diagnosis report and the service managers telephone number to.

The clerk or manager will most likely talk to the warranty adjuster themselves without putting you through torture.

In my case the clerk dropped the ball and gave me the wrong information which has led to two months of screwing around. It is debatable what the owners responsibilities are as per the thread so far. Unfortunately the human factor of the employees come into play so don't take anything for granted. Don't curse on them! If they don't know, they don't know.....just like you :))

Anyway, Fidelity hired a local adjuster who came to look at my Touareg. Fidelity did not like the fact that the drive shaft was done without their authorization, which makes sense. The adjuster sorted things out and worded what was needed to be done in his own way. The adjuster was not off of the dealership's parking lot when Fidelity called the service manager and authorized everything that needed to be done.

My Touareg was on the ramp within two hours getting the engine dropped and sensors replaced. I was told that I could expect to have the car back by coming Wednesday or Thursday as I looked at it up in mid air with the front wheels off of it.

I was told with a smile that "everything" is covered.....whatever that means.

To me it means something good and I am very happy!!

Final update in a few days but I tell you, Fidelity is very good!
 
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