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Toyota and Honda dealers are ghetto. I own a Honda van and have owned toyotas. Every time I go to a dealer I feel like a friggin criminal. If you feel bad about VW dealer try one of the above ;)
Not sure what you mean by this comment, but I would point out that dealer experiences in this hemisphere may well be different. The OP is in Australia and I would think that he is looking for experiences here, DOWNUNDER.

Salfield
if you go with the Touareg, follow Nooby's advice and get a Ross-Tech cable as you will find it invaluable out there. In respect of Toyotas, I think the observation that any modern 4wd will have lots of electronics that can (but won't necessarily) go bung. Matthew makes a good point in that respect above post 30.

I often wonder about reliability as to whether there is not really a trade off over the years between how often a vehicle has a problem and how easy it is to fix.

Back in the day when original Landcruisers and Landrovers were the mainstay of 4wd in the outback, it seems to me there were frequent breakdowns, only that with such simple and basic designs, the competent mechanic could get it going again relatively easily. Indeed 4wd were not really needed often, my uncles used early Holdens and imported Dodges (I remember the Phoenix with the push button auto with fondness) in the north of SA in the 50's and early 60's. Ground clearance simple designs and an abundance of fencing wire kept them going :D.

Nowadays, it seems that vehicles are generally more reliable as in the stop less often (and certainly service intervals and tyre life are greatly expanded) but when they do it is usually more permanent as there is a much greater complexity to design. You cant rig a temporary fix with fence wire, or have the hessian water bag dripping cool water into and on the radiator to assist with cooling as one uncle did with the EK Holden in 110 F temps (as it was back then) to get back to Marree.

These days the best bet seems to be a well paid up insurance policy, good auto club cover and some knowledge by the owner, such that a Ross Tech cable and this forum will give.

Best of luck with whichever way you go, let us know
 
Discussion starter · #43 ·
Thanks lads for all the comments. I do appreciate it. It's going to come down to price now. I appreciate Toyota's reputation for reliability etc, but I may be a dumbo, but I just don't want one. It's definitely between the X5 and the Touareg. I'm pretty confident that, at least in Australia, the Touareg is a pretty safe bet and you take the risk with any car. I bought a Subaru STI and the guy had dodged up the service book for the very expensive 100k service, but what can you do.
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I'd still like to hear opinions, so keep them coming.
.
I will ask a side question if I can. 4 X motion? I always thought they way to tell (current shape) if the car was 4Xmotion was the second dial near the gear stick. I saw an advertised touareg today with one dial but with the diff lock etc underneath the ON ROAD/ OFF ROAD symbols. Am I seeing things?
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Cheers
Sal
 
Discussion starter · #44 ·
Not sure what you mean by this comment, but I would point out that dealer experiences in this hemisphere may well be different. The OP is in Australia and I would think that he is looking for experiences here, DOWNUNDER.

Salfield
if you go with the Touareg, follow Nooby's advice and get a Ross-Tech cable as you will find it invaluable out there. In respect of Toyotas, I think the observation that any modern 4wd will have lots of electronics that can (but won't necessarily) go bung. Matthew makes a good point in that respect above post 30.

I often wonder about reliability as to whether there is not really a trade off over the years between how often a vehicle has a problem and how easy it is to fix.

Back in the day when original Landcruisers and Landrovers were the mainstay of 4wd in the outback, it seems to me there were frequent breakdowns, only that with such simple and basic designs, the competent mechanic could get it going again relatively easily. Indeed 4wd were not really needed often, my uncles used early Holdens and imported Dodges (I remember the Phoenix with the push button auto with fondness) in the north of SA in the 50's and early 60's. Ground clearance simple designs and an abundance of fencing wire kept them going :D.

Nowadays, it seems that vehicles are generally more reliable as in the stop less often (and certainly service intervals and tyre life are greatly expanded) but when they do it is usually more permanent as there is a much greater complexity to design. You cant rig a temporary fix with fence wire, or have the hessian water bag dripping cool water into and on the radiator to assist with cooling as one uncle did with the EK Holden in 110 F temps (as it was back then) to get back to Marree.

These days the best bet seems to be a well paid up insurance policy, good auto club cover and some knowledge by the owner, such that a Ross Tech cable and this forum will give.

Best of luck with whichever way you go, let us know
Cheers pjod. I have book marked the Ross tech cable, but I also found a similar cable on eBay. Not sure if they work the same.
.
Sal
 
Sal
I would think the overwhelming consensus on this forum would be go for the Ross Tech cable. Do a search and you may well find experiences with some of the copies are not so favourable.
Given where you would be go for the proven performer
 
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I will ask a side question if I can. 4 X motion? I always thought they way to tell (current shape) if the car was 4Xmotion was the second dial near the gear stick. I saw an advertised touareg today with one dial but with the diff lock etc underneath the ON ROAD/ OFF ROAD symbols. Am I seeing things?
.
Cheers
Sal
4XMotion is right hand dial, but with 5 modes (onroad/offroad/low range/low range locked centre diff/ low range locked centre & rear diffs) rather than just onroad/offroad. Left hand dial (in Aust) is for air suspension ride heights.

Lock button you see beneath onraod/offroad dial is to lock the air suspension height (eg. jacking mode)
 
Cheers pjod. I have book marked the Ross tech cable, but I also found a similar cable on eBay. Not sure if they work the same.
.
Sal
You pays yer money and takes yer choice so that'll be

Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
Ross-Tech
every time!

I think you've got the message . . .
 
So not all 4Xmotions have air suspension?
Air suspension was an option for MY11 and MY12 4XMotion and 4Motion T3 Tregs, but is standard on MY13.
 
There are some very basic things about a Toyota that make it a better fit for the kind of environment the OP wishes to operate it in. On the Touareg, every nut is triple square and even the wipers are unique as an example. Generic fixes and finding the right tools is a whole lot easier dealing with Japanese cars in sparsely populated areas. Had to learn that through experience! :(
 
I think the toyota argument is pointless the op has stated its bmw or touareg and has said no to toyota many in aus have had toyota found them very unreliable and costly to keep on the road myself included i would never go to toyota again.
 
X2 on the Ross Tech cable. Mind you I have one and have rarely used it with the R50.

I think the biggest issue that will get you stuck where you are is no spare wheel ! This is the issue that scares me the most when I'm well away frrom the bright lights.
 
Pls excuse my ignorance about the spare wheel but this is mentioned a lot and yet surely the space-saver spare will get you out of trouble?
I also carry one of those pressure pack repair things - not sure how useful it is but I guess it's worth a shot if for any reason I can't jack the Treg up?
 
The space saver spare works well on metalled roads, but I'd understand people's concern out in the boondocks.

I use tyre strings now and can be on my way again in less than ten minutes from hearing the dread "wubba . . wubba . . . wubba . . .". The beauty of the strings is you can fill quite a large hole with several strings.

I get the tyre repaired properly later.
 
Pls excuse my ignorance about the spare wheel but this is mentioned a lot and yet surely the space-saver spare will get you out of trouble?
I also carry one of those pressure pack repair things - not sure how useful it is but I guess it's worth a shot if for any reason I can't jack the Treg up?
This is OK for the Hyway. Rough gravel or sharp rocky roads, Paddocks with sticks , all the things you get in the bush ! A propper spare would be good. Also I'd like to fit a decent Bull Bar , but not an option, this goes for most new vehicles these days.
 
Rough gravel or sharp rocky roads, Paddocks with sticks , all the things you get in the bush ! A propper spare would be good.
So - the crummy space saver would not work on the above? Would it not get you to civilisation OK?
I guess it depends on how far from civilisation you are….
 
Pls excuse my ignorance about the spare wheel but this is mentioned a lot and yet surely the space-saver spare will get you out of trouble?
I also carry one of those pressure pack repair things - not sure how useful it is but I guess it's worth a shot if for any reason I can't jack the Treg up?
The problem when traveling in the bush is that there may be a long distance to find a tyre shop after you have a problem and also there may be difficulty in obtaining a replacement tyre of the exact size you need, let alone exact tread pattern etc. The space-saver spare is relatively flimsy and would not stand a long journey on rough terrain.

The secondary dirt roads often have spikes from root remnants sticking out or spikes from road-kill bones. These can punch a large hole into even a sturdy tyre. You can't see them because they get covered in dust.

You notice that many of the outback regulars use multi-ply narrow truck tyres and have split steel rims so that they can do repairs on the spot. And they carry multiple spare tyres and repair gear.
 
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