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Discussion starter · #42 ·
Update on my original post. This past Saturday I backed my Touareg down a boat ramp, applied the park brake, eased my foot off the brake and POP!!! Just like my original post, the same thing happend again. I suspected the alignment slipped out so today, June 6th, I returned the truck to the dealer for an alignment check and boy was it out of align; completely out of align again! It is my opinion that the Touareg has a problem whereby the alignment will slip out easily, either due to a design issue or improper torque on the alignment set bolts. I have witnessed this truck being aligned three times and the technicians are swinging from the torque wrench bar so I suspect bolt torque is not the problem. The average driver may never notice this problem but if you back the truck down a really steep hill, ramp or driveway, set the park brake, pop your foot off the foot brake you may hear a loud POP. That is the sound of your alignment slipping. And when the camber slips, the toe slips with it. The end result is a slight slip in alignment and will result in a major alignment problem. And you will not feel it on the steering. Your alignment problem will show when your tires are worn and too late for correction. This is a big problem. I am getting ready to involve VW corporate for resolution.

I am not complaining but VW needs to know what's going on with this flagship vehicle. Each time I hear the POP, the alignment is gone. I never drive on any roads but smooth roads and interstates. I have almost 45,000 miles on the truck and it has been realigned three times in six months since new tire replacement, literally. If you own a 2011 Touareg or later you had better have your alignment checked NOW. You will not notice an alignment problem on this vehicle by driving it. More to come.
 
I just had VW corporate help me with an alignment issue - right side control arm caster was maxed out and they could not align the car. I only have 30K on the car. Similar to yours, it only feels like a slight pull to the right, not something major.
 
Discussion starter · #44 ·
Update. Contacted VW Corporate on Thursday. A regional manager reviewed my case, contacted my dealer, retrieved my maintenance records and called me by COB Friday evening as promised. Tomorrow I will establish another appointment with the dealer and they will ride with me in an attempt to replicate the "POP." Next they will place the vehicle back on the alignment rack and contact VW technical support for further direction. The goal is to see if the alignment slips again after this POP.

Well today, I backed down a boat ramp again and POP!!! This POP was not loud but very noticeable. Probably because I eased off the brake pedal very slowly. I'll bet the alignment is out again. But we shall find out this week. More to come.
 
I'm not doubting that your alignment is going out.

However, the pop that you're describing sounds very much like the park assist releasing itself. (There's a thread on here about it somewhere, but I can't find it right now). I live in flat land, so I never really get to experience this, but one day last week we were parked on a steep driveway, and when we started to back up, I could hear a slight pop, and I could immediately feel the brakes release. It's the exact same feeling as when you try to drive with the e-brake on, and it "let's" go. There's a pop or a feeling when it finally does release so that you can move.

It sure doesn't seem like the alignment should have anything to do with being on a hill and releasing the brakes, unless you had the wheels turned really hard.

Good luck with what you find out!
 
So I'm left with no one I can trust to service my vehicle. If there is anyone out there who lives in southern WI who has a service dept. they can trust and recommend, please let me know.:confused:
Dunno about Southern, WI, but I guarantee if you come on over to our shop we'll get things sorted out.

Nancy
 
Discussion starter · #47 ·
Update to my "POP" and alignment issue. After extensive attempts to reproduce the Pop on the road today, while parking on several hills, it is great to report that we replicated the sound. Not once did the sound appear while parking. Luckily it appeared while parking in the dealer's shop, applying the park brake and literally pulling back and forwards on the tow hitch. The loud and VERY loud mystery POP appeared!!! I am extremely excited to report that none of the popping involved anything suspension related. It was the park brake.

The Touareg does not employ the brake pads on the outside of the rotor surface to hold the vehicle when the park brake is applied. Instead the Touareg uses a design whereby tiny brake shoes are pressed inside of the rotor to hold the wheel, kinda like small brake shoes inside a brake drum. The little brake shoes will move slightly when all conditions are perfect when the park brake is applied and when parked on a steep incline. They will only make the pop when the vehicle can roll backwards down a hill; and the pop rarely happens and most drivers will never notice it. Mystery solved. This has nothing to do with auto-hold or the brake pads, only the park brake... Interesting design but very ingenious indeed. The pop sound has nothing to do with the alignment slipping. I'm very excited to find this out. Cudos to my local dealer service manager for pursuing this problem until it was found!


Now, we highly suspect the alignment problem may be the wide tolerances on an older precision alignment machine. So to troubleshoot this problem my dealer has sent the vehicle up the road to a local tire dealer who has the latest precision alignment equipment to verify the alignment. The Touareg has been aligned three times since December. Each alignment verification indicated all four wheels way off. One alignment was completed by one technician and the last two alignments were completed by a different technician. The new Michelin Latitude HP tires have perfect wear at almost 15K miles, the OEM Pirellis were worn completely out at 20K. Without a doubt, the vehicle came from the factory mis-aligned. Now let's see the verdict when the truck returns with the new alignment check shortly. One problem down, one to go. More to come.
 
Glad that you got this diagnosed!!!

From the problem that you described, it sure sounded like it was the park brakes slipping. I don't know this for a fact, but I would think that the auto-hold and the hill-assist and park brake all use the same pads, and not actually applying the "regular" brakes. Others may know for sure.

It's also good to hear that it doesn't have anything to do with alignment...
 
Update to my "POP" and alignment issue. After extensive attempts to reproduce the Pop on the road today, while parking on several hills, it is great to report that we replicated the sound. Not once did the sound appear while parking. Luckily it appeared while parking in the dealer's shop, applying the park brake and literally pulling back and forwards on the tow hitch. The loud and VERY loud mystery POP appeared!!! I am extremely excited to report that none of the popping involved anything suspension related. It was the park brake.

The Touareg does not employ the brake pads on the outside of the rotor surface to hold the vehicle when the park brake is applied. Instead the Touareg uses a design whereby tiny brake shoes are pressed inside of the rotor to hold the wheel, kinda like small brake shoes inside a brake drum. The little brake shoes will move slightly when all conditions are perfect when the park brake is applied and when parked on a steep incline. They will only make the pop when the vehicle can roll backwards down a hill; and the pop rarely happens and most drivers will never notice it. Mystery solved. This has nothing to do with auto-hold or the brake pads, only the park brake... Interesting design but very ingenious indeed. The pop sound has nothing to do with the alignment slipping. I'm very excited to find this out. Cudos to my local dealer service manager for pursuing this problem until it was found!


.

This design is not uncommon and for anyone who has dealt with the brakes on their cars it is well known.

The design is intended to remove the possibilty of a very hot disc /rotor contracting as it cools and releasing the pads in the brake calipers so the vehicle might be at risk of rolling away on a steep hill for example [unlikely if the car an auto in P but as I have said on here before, don't rely on the small peg in the gearbox that is engaged when you select P]!] but it also means the calipers don't clamp the pads onto a part of a hot disc/rotor and thereby create different rates of cooling which might damage/distort the disc/rotor.

One of the diadvantages of applying the parking brake in this way is that it is only applied when the car is stationary. Rust builds up on the internal face of the drum that is, as you say, incorporated within the rear discs/rotors because the braking surface is never swept as it would be on the main caliper/pad/rotor braking system.

As a result - for T1 and T2 Touaregs - I was advised by my Touareg technician to gently apply the parking brake at low speed for a couple of hundred yards at least once a month to maintain the efficiency of the parking brake.

The improvement was measurable - within three months my parking brake efficiency had increased from 16% to 24%.

Also, count the number of clicks it takes to set the parking brake with the foot pedal - 5 to 8 should be okay. Any more and the parking brake shoes should be adjusted. Again, this is for T1 T2s
 
...

As a result - for T1 and T2 Touaregs - I was advised by my Touareg technician to gently apply the parking brake at low speed for a couple of hundred yards at least once a month to maintain the efficiency of the parking brake.

...
That really makes some sense, to keep things working properly in there. However, I don't think that is possible in a 2011+. I think that you can apply the park brake while you're moving, and it will only grab when you're completely stopped.

So, I'm not for sure how you would apply it slightly while moving...
 
This is the downside of electric parking brakes!
 
Discussion starter · #52 ·
As of today, my Michelin tires have 30K miles on them... They look like new with well over half to 3/4 of the tread left on the tires. I rotate every 5K miles by taking the front tires straight to the rear and crossing the rear tires as they are brought to the front. From my original thread, the dealer's alignment machine was off and out of calibration. Amazing what persistence will uncover! Be sure to "road force" balance the tires. A normal balance machine will not balance these very wide tires! The Michelin tire is freakin' awesome!
 
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