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Power steering noise (intermittent)

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2009 intermittent noise power steering pump
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#81 ·
Twitap8 -

If your "disbelieving" VW Service Adviser / Manager doubts ANY of this information discussing this power steering noise issue to be FACT, then I might suggest that he/she contact Service Adviser Jeff Porter at Volkswagen North Scottsdale in Scottsdale, AZ. Porter's contact info can be found online very easily.

Tell your contact to ask Porter to detail the issue surrounding the Batchelor 2009 T2 V6 and the power steering noise issue that we have been collectively chasing at his dealership since late Spring 2011 - and as first reported to Berge Volkswagen in Gilbert, AZ in early Summer 2010!!

Also suggest that your "disbelieving" Service Adviser / Manager reach out to Volkswagen Quality Technical Manager (QTM) Chris Gerke. Gerke is the VW QTM that has been overseeing my issue to date. I'm sure that Gerke can "shed some bright light" on this issue for your "disbeliever".

Unfortunately, the disbelief and denials that spew forth from Volkswagen dealership underling level service departments seem to be status quo for Volkswagen et al... until critical mass forms around an issue and the pressure INCREASES.

IMO, thanks primarily to the efforts put forth in this CT forum, and this specific thread, by CT members experiencing this power steering noise problem with their various model year Tregs, that is exactly where we are now with this issue. Critical mass is forming and the pressure on VW to SOLVE this FLEET-WIDE problem is definitely INCREASING.

BTW, I have communicated with several law firms across the USA that specialize in class-action lawsuits against automobile manufactures relative to manufactures' refusal to address wide-spread manufacturing defects. Two of the major national law firms that I spoke with are MOST interested in learning more about this situation surrounding the power steering problem with the VW Touareg fleet.

For now, I will delay any further pursuit with the lawyers in the effort to give Volkswagen et al the opportunity to resolve the problem. However, if VW drags their collective feet much longer - my finger trigger will soon get "itchy".
 
#82 ·
My issue was diagnosed as a bad front blower motor. The motor goes on and off intermittently. When this happens, air flow from the front vents stops and resumes. The vibration through the steering wheel is tied directly to this intermittent blower motor.
 
#83 ·
I'm not sure how this is related because my groan is directly tied to turning the wheels. Your noise seems as though it would not be tied to turning of the wheels, rather tied to the motor turning on and off. Am I wrong?
 
#84 ·
shakattk -

Interesting thoughts and comments concerning the bad blower motor.

However, I can most confidently state that the power steering noise issue that has been copiously described in this thread by numerous Treg owners is definitely NOT related to a bad blower motor.

Volkswagen Engineering has acknowledged that there is a problem with fluid flow through the power steering fluid circuit that causes resonation and vibration in the power steering fluid lines. The original routing of the power steering fluid lines transmits that resonation and vibration to the chassis - which is then transmitted to, and felt in, the steering wheel and other chassis-connected components.

As such, newly redesigned power steering fluid lines and a newly redesigned power steering fluid reservoir are en-route to the USA form Germany for installation on my 2009 Treg 2 3.6L V6. I just received confirmation that service appointment is now set for next Tuesday, October 04, 2011.

Let's hope that these new parts will cure this nagging problem and the "fix" can then be rolled out to the Treg fleet under a new VW TSB.

I will advise as to the success of the new parts once installed next week.

Cheers!
 
#85 ·
shakattk said:
My issue was diagnosed as a bad front blower motor. The motor goes on and off intermittently. When this happens, air flow from the front vents stops and resumes. The vibration through the steering wheel is tied directly to this intermittent blower motor.
Click to expand...
Did replacing the 'bad blower motor' actually fix the issue you had/have? If not then a diagnosis does not equal a fix!
 
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Discussion starter · #86 ·
Moto,

The VW service manager at Lauzon VW and the regional advisor in the Montreal region are apparently in contact with some VW guys in the US. I'm still waiting for a feedback from them as it appears that you'll probably be the guinea pig.

Hope the new parts fix the problem. In my case, since they changed the pressure hose a couple of months ago, the problem was still there, but still intermittent. Now it's kinda permanent and it's been like that for the past 2 weeks. Maybe the cavitation issue impacts the pump after a certain period of time, you might want to keep that in mind if the noise persist when they replace the hoses and reservoir with the new & improved parts.
 
#88 ·
UPDATE -

Yesterday Volkswagen North Scottsdale replaced the PRESSURE HOSE in the power power steering system on my 2009 Treg 2 3.6L FSI Gas vehicle with new hose part number 7L6-422-893-BT.

Apparently, this is a new, redesigned flex hose shipped in from Germany - although EKTA information suggests that the part number has existed for my vehicle for quite some time. I am trying to confirm today what changes were made to the new hose.

Anyway, the EARLY results from the "fix" are encouraging.

The previous "growl" emitted by the power steering system is now definitely gone. The overall power steering effort is definitely reduced. And the on-center steering "feel" is improved. This all suggests to me that the operating pressure has increased in the power steering system as a result of the installation of the new hose.

It also appears that the new hose is routed in a slightly different manner in the effort to keep the hose away from contact with the unibody.

As we have discussed in the past in this thread, the abnormal power steering noise problem is definitely exacerbated by high ambient heat. Unfortunately for solving this problem, yesterday the summer heat finally broke in the Phoenix metro area and the 100F+ daytime temps are gone until next June. So, the reduced ambient temps may be contributing to the improvement in the problem just as much as the installation of the new pressure hose. Only time will tell...

I will report any further changes - positive or negative - once I live with this "fix" a bit longer.

Moto
 
#89 ·
Looking back at T2-MTL's post #66 in this thread, it appears that his VW Dealer also replaced his pressure hose with part number 7L6-422-893-BT and he is still experiencing the abnormal power steering noise problem with his Treg.

This is the same part/part number that was replaced on my Treg yesterday. Not encouraging... :=(

So the "redesigned pressure hose from Germany" story now smells very fishy to me. I will speak with the Volkswagen North Scottsdale General Service Manager today to get to the bottom of the "redesigned pressure hose form Germany" story.

More to follow...
 
#90 ·
I'm glad you are experiencing an improvement.

Just one thing that does not seem quite logical: why would a new hose increase the pressure?

It is only a conduit.

Even if the old hose, for example, were more flexible/longer/shorter/different diameter/whatever, then surely the psi within the system would still be the same unless they have also uprated the pump?

EDITED: I wrote this as you were posting #89 so perhaps all is not as well as you may have thought. Pity.
 
#91 ·
Hey nooby!

It was explained to me by the VW Dealer working my problem that VW Factory Engineering were redesigning a new pressure line - possibly to include a "venturi" inserted in the pressure line - so as to maintain/increase the line pressure in order to prevent pump cavitation when the fluid thinned out under very high ambient temps - i.e. like in Phoenix, AZ in the summer.

IF a venturi had been designed into the "new" hose that I assumed was installed on my vehicle, I applied that understanding to assume (incorrectly?) higher operating pressure in the pressure line. Thus, my reference to higher system pressure.

Apparently, my VW Dealer has been "feeding me a line of BS" all this time.

I'm still trying to sort all of this out today with the Dealer and will report my findings.

Moto
 
Discussion starter · #92 ·
Hi Moto,

In my case, I would still have that noise until we go below 15 degree Celcius or 59 degree Farenheit. So even though you are a bit below the 100 degrees Farenheit, it shouldn't be a problem. With the 79 degrees that you have today, you should still have the issue if it was just heat related.

However, my experience is that it may come back after a few days or maybe a week if in fact, they haven't changed the design of the hose. That's what happened when they replaced the pumps or even the hose. You'll know it if something is wrong in about a week max. Keep us posted.
 
#93 ·
Thanks T2-MTL!

Reflecting on your experience I half expect my problem to crop back up before "the snow flies" in Phoenix.

I am hopeful/optimistic the problem is cured, but if my VW Dealer did not use a new, redesigned pressure hose in the service performed yesterday, as I suspect, my optimism for the "fix" is already dashed.

I will certainly report any further developments.
 
#94 ·
An interesting chat with my dealer yesterday suggests that Volkswagen North America may be leaning toward classifying this "abnormal power steering noise" problem as a

DESIGN CHARACTERISTIC

If the problem is so-classified by Volkswagen, forget about any warranty repairs or future fixes surrounding this problem.

IMO, this would be another step deep into in the "wet stuff" by Volkswagen in general.

After 34 years of owning Volkswagens, I probably have purchased my last Volkswagen product. Future purchases will be Audi or Porsche. Audi/Porsche don't play theses sorts of games with their allegiant customers.
 
#95 ·
If it is truly a 'Design Characteristic' then EVERY 2009 Touareg with a V6 motor should have the same issue (or non issue if you believe VW).
 
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Discussion starter · #96 ·
That's exactly what the tech at Lauzon VW said this summer. This noise is normal by design... Yeah right! This is like saying that it was normal to say that Windows Vista was slow, but it was intended to be slower than XP and therefore it was a design caracteristic. MS fixed their issue when they released Windows 7. In our case, we are talking about a simple mechanical system, the power steering, which existed for years.

Moto, does it mean that in the end, they haven't changed the design of the hose and you've got BS or you still hear that noise even thought they changed the design?

If they officially make it a design caracteristic, I'll get rid of my 55k$ 2009 Touareg that sounds like it is equipped with an 25 year old power steering system and I'll never buy a VW again... Will it include Audi and Porsche, we'll see. There are pretty good alternatives out there.

Let's say they do it, then I guess the only option is a class action lawsuit.

Let me explained what happened to me lately with my LCD projection TV that I've bought in Sept 2006. A couple of week ago, I started to see a green haze in the middle of the screen and as the days go by, it was getting worst. I know, this is not related to Tregs, but the context is about the same.... So I looked on the web and it seems that there was a class action against the manufacturer for this problem called the green blob (different model than mine, but...). They had a faulty optical block and the part is about 1k$ to replace. At first they extended the warranty for that until 2009 and even after, if it happened, you could call the manufacturer support and they would offer two options as replacement. i.e. To replace a 50" LCD projection, they would offer a 46" lcd flat screen for about the cost of transport or a 55" LED at about 40% of the retail price. If there would have been no class action, then nothing like that would be possible. So I'm getting a new LCD tv for very chaep...

Overall, it will be the same with VW in that case, VW won't do anything unless they are forced to do so. When we talk about the price of a Treg, we are talking about huge money compared to a TV. If VW wants to keep their customer base and sell more Treg in America, then they have to stop taking their current customers for granted and keep them happy. If they don't, it might hurt them as the current customers won't buy another VW when it is time to change. Moreover, these are the internet years and you can do research before investing more than 50k$ in a car. It is pretty easy nowadays to find threads like this and see if a car maker makes a good job or not. Communication is power... And it could impact their sales if people are reading threads like this before buying a Treg...
 
#97 ·
Suffice to say that the noise is noticeably reduced after the repair on my Treg 3.6L - but still present. I still feel the buzz in the steering wheel and I still hear the groaning. Once the 100F+ high ambient temps return to Phoenix, AZ next June, I fully expect the problem to return full-on.

Fourdiesel -

I totally agree with your assessment above.

If the "abnormal power steering noise" problem is to be classified by Volkswagen North America as a design characteristic, then the condition should be present in every Treg. I'm not sure that is the case. Many Treg 3.6L suffer the condition - but I do not believe that every Treg 3.6L suffers the condition.

BTW, has anyone ever considered/researched if the Porsche Cayenne 3.6L exhibits this same problem?

The 3.6L Pepper is essentially the same vehicle platform and mechanicals as the Treg 3.6L. If the "abnormal power steering noise" problem is rooted in a design characteristic, then one might expect the same problem to crop up in the Pepper as well - "a twin son of a different mother".

:confused:


T2-ML -

No, I do not have a redesigned pressure hose installed in my Treg 3.6L.

The power steering pressure hose used to replace my original pressure hose was part number 7L6-422-892-BT. That part is the legacy part - and the same part you indicate was used to replace your pressure hose back in May 2011.

At this point I'm not sure why there was ever any discussion of a "new" part coming from VW originating from my VW Dealer. I am not at all convinced that there ever was a "new" redesigned hose coming from Germany.

Was I simply confused as my VW Dealer suggested to me last Friday? No. I was not.

Rather, I am now suspicious that the "new part coming from Germany" story line was used to push out the repair of my Treg 3.6L until the ambient temps in Phoenix, AZ cooled down below 100F.

Particularly given the fact that my VW Dealer now outright refuses to communicate with me via email surrounding this issue. I was advised last Friday that my VW Dealer refuses to put anymore discussion surrounding this problem "on the record".

Very suspicious.
 
Discussion starter · #98 ·
Interesting!

We should also investigate the Audi Q7 as it uses the same 3.6L engine.

This week, Lauzon VW is suppose to have a chat with the regional service guy to look at what's left to replace and they will get back to me. Hose-Hose-Hose they say... They were suppose to talk about this lissue last month, but for some reason it didn't happen. Then, 2-3 weeks ago... Didn't happen... Then this week.... So we'll see but I guess it won't happen again. I agree with Moto's feedback, it seems to me that this is just a strategy to gain some time before the temperature cools down so we can get off their back for a while.

My hopes got up when it seemed that VW designed a fix... But it seems that it was just BS.

I'm just tired of losing time with this issue. So if it doesn't get serious this week, then I'll seriously consider replacing my Treg.

Maybe, the others who have this problem are not as patient, so they don't lose time and get rid of the Treg after been told this is normal by design... and some might live with this issue...

The saga continues...
 
#99 ·
Hi Ppl,

I have taken my Treg to numerous services and lots of mechanics examined it. They all say, Normal by Design. every time I refused to believe such a BS as this is not a Sh.tty honda we are talking about. This is a giant price tag piece of machine.

Anyway, I was striving to explain my problem and the buzz at the wheel, then i saw that Q7, which was there for maintenance... the same chasis, same engine, same mechanics.... I said why not, I talked with the owner and he let me take a test drive.

Bam! the problem was there. Even worse. So Audi Q7 has the same problem. It was so obvious that the shake on the wheel was felt even the car is in full stop. So there is no reason that the Cayenne doesnt have this problem as well.

This is even better; I saw a guy arguing about how disturbing the buzz at the steering wheel while leaving a new test Touareg!!! Yes! the guy was telling this to the test drive guy! And Yes. This problem also exists with the all brand new vehicles.

But let me tell you, my previous vehicle was a Treg as well. A 2004 petrol 3.2V6 machine and it did not have such a problem. The steering wheel stood rock solid. When i bought my new vehicle (2008-3.0V6 TDI) i started to experience this problem. So it is obvious that a new part which has changed since then causing these problems.

As a conclusion, There is no way that the VW could tag this simply "Design Characteristic" and get away with this. They could only describe it as a "Design Flaw" which they are obliged to fix.
 
#100 ·
Very interesting that the abnormal power steering noise problem exists in the Audi Q7 as well as the brand new Treg 3.

That finding and information might actually improve the argument that VW may stand on to insist that the problem is a design characteristic rather than a defect in the Treg - or any other VW/Audi/Porsche vehicle built on the same platform.

Recall that early on in this process, the Lead Service Tech at my VW Dealer indicated to me that they have confirmed the same problem in other VW vehicles utilizing the 3.6L engine package - i.e. the VW Passat CC. That fact might also contribute to VW aiming to classify the problem as a design characteristic.

Those of us that suffer the problem will continue to argue that the problem is a defect probably caused by a design flaw, as wisely noted above by Mentat.

I continue to suspect that VW is seeking an "out" on this problem in the effort to avoid a HUGE mess - particularly as it becomes more evident every day that the abnormal power steering noise problem occurs fleet-wide in the Treg/Q7 platform.

I will perform more research this week and seek out a Cayenne 3.6L vehicle to better-determine if the same problem exists in that vehicle as well.

More to follow...

Moto
 
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