Club Touareg Forum banner
Cancel
Create thread New Garage Forums

Power steering noise (intermittent)

Tags
2009 intermittent noise power steering pump
Jump to Latest
61 - 80 of 253 Posts
#61 ·
VolkswgenDude -

STRONGLY suggest close review of the VW specs for SYNTHETIC HYDRAULIC power steering fluid before casually recommending "...switching and experimenting (ed. really?) with different fluids, to Amsoil and/or Redline..." to this forum.

VW currently specs synthetic hydraulic power steering fluid G-004-000-M2 / VW TL 52 162.01 for the Touareg hydraulic power steering system.

The AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Power Steering Fluid, as currently formulated, DOES NOT meet the newest VW hydraulic power steering fluid spec - VW TL 52 162.01

The AMSOIL PSF, as currently formulated, meets ONLY the Volkswagen TL 570 26 and TL 52 146.00 specifications.

As a long-time AMSOIL Distributor (since 1975), I nearly always prefer, and recommend, AMSOIL products in ALL lubrication applications when and where possible. However, in this instance, due to not meeting the current VW synthetic power steering fluid spec, I CANNOT recommend the AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Power Steering Fluid (PSF) for application in the Volkswagen Touareg.

Further, the Redline Synthetic Power Steering fluid, as currently formulated, DOES NOT meet ANY of the VW specs for synthetic power steering fluids. Rather, the Redline synthetic power steering fluid is an ATF-type fluid replacement.

According to Redline's specs issued for their synthetic hydraulic power steering fluid, the product is applicable only "where the manufacturer calls for any automatic transmission fluid such as Dexron®, Dexron II-D®, II-E®, or Dexron III®, Ford Type-F, Mercon, or M2C138-CJ".

None of the specs/applications mentioned in the Redline materials for their synthetic power steering fluid meet any VW fluid spec as required for the Touareg.

In fact, if one WERE to introduce Redline Synthetic Power Steering fluid into the Touareg hydraulic power steering system (remember, it is an ATF-type synthetic fluid) you will create a BIG problem in the system - a problem that, unless quickly corrected, will eventually necessitate replacement of the pump, rack and lines as the Redline fluid will destroy the seals throughout the system.

Like any other synthetic lubricant, synthetic hydraulic power steering fluid formulation is a VERY exact science. That is why VW/Audi frequently update the fluid specs and the fluid formulations recommended for their fleet.

As an AMSOIL Distributor, I am communicating with our Engineering Group to encourage AMSOIL to update the specification compliance on the AMSOIL PSF product to meet the newest VW/Audi fluid specs. Hopefully that update can occur before year's end.

Further, VW/Audi STRONGLY encourages compliance with their fluid specifications. If non-spec fluids ARE used, and a subsequent warranty claim is tendered where failure can be linked to the use of non-spec fluids (i.e. AMSOIL or Redline power steering fluid), the warranty is VOID.

If my suspicions prove true with the "persistent abnormal power steering noise issue" suggesting lost fluid viscosity in the power steering fluid when hot, as exhibited by the current VW synthetic power steering fluid #G-004-000-M2, formulated to meet the TL 52-162.01 spec, I fully expect VW/Audi to issue an updated synthetic power steering fluid spec and new fluid formulation (i.e. manufactured by Pentosin) to address the issue.

Summary: Casual technical recommendations lacking complete understanding can be dangerous to the general membership and readership of the Club Touareg forum.
 
#62 ·
Motolegends, I agree with you 100%, but I figure when a car enthusiast makes a manufacturer recommendation, it is with the idea that the product is compatible. If we are dealing with blind sheep on this forum, then yes you are right. If I recommend Esso fuel to you, obviously you will see to it that you will use the right octane. If I recommend a certain filter maker, obviously you will do your research that it is compatible filter. OBVIOUSLY, my mistake was that I did not wright in brackets"(assuming that Redline and Amsoil make the appropriate oil that meets the right standard)". That all said, seeing that you really care about misinformation being spread needlessly, do you remember when I asked you in this link here many months ago http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f...m/forums/f43/which-part-for-rear-locking-diff-oil-conflicting-info-23666-3.html , why the hell is it that Amsoil and their dealers recommend the wrong diff oil GL-4, when it should be GL-5? I think that this is a more grave situation that should be, or should have been addressed. This forum is plastered with actual Amsoil literature, that the diff oil should be GL-4, when it should be GL-5. That said, I do very much respect the fact, that you are seemingly a very knowledgeable Amsoil retailer, compared to every single one that I have dealt with thus far.

If you wish to comment back on what I just wrote, might as well do it in the link I provided mid paragraph, so that your power steering thread doesn't go off topic.



 
#63 ·
VolkswagenDude -

Thanks for your insightful and complimentary comments!

My singular point of contention in my earlier post was that the recommendation made to MTL-T2 that he use Redline Synthetic Power Steering Fluid in his vehicle as an "experiment" violated the basic tenant, "with the idea that the product is compatible", that you note in your follow-on post.

The FACT is that the Redline Synthetic Power Steering Fluid IS NOT compatible with the VW Touareg power steering system. To the contrary, introducing the Redline Synthetic Power Steering Fluid into a Touareg power steering system could cause CATASTROPHIC failure of the system.

As I noted in this power steering noise issue thread, and the older historical thread you linked in above discussing AMSOIL lubrication products applicable to the VW Touareg and the specific VW-published lubrication product specifications, personally I ALWAYS refer to the VEHICLE MANUFACTURERS' specifications and recommendations for lubrication products FIRST, and then match the PROPER AMSOIL product to those specifications - ensuring that the AMSOIL product I select/recommend meets the HIGHEST vehicle manufacture lubrication specification published.

As such, there was no misinformation spread in the older, historical thread you linked. RE-READ THE ENTIRE THREAD CLOSELY IF NECESSARY.

If a particular AMSOIL product DOES NOT meet the HIGHEST vehicle manufacturer lubrication specification published, I WILL NOT use that particular AMSOIL product in that particular vehicle application, nor will I recommend that product to ANY of my Customers nor to ANY of the AMSOIL Dealers in my Distribution Network.

Again, for clarity in this power steering noise issue thread, the AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Power Steering Fluid, as currently formulated, DOES NOT meet the newest/highest VW hydraulic power steering fluid spec REQUIRED for the VW Touareg - VW TL 52 162.01.

As such, personally, I CANNOT recommend that ANY Touareg owner use the AMSOIL PSF product, as currently formulated, in their vehicle. I certainly will not use the product in my personal Touareg - at least until AMSOIL updates compliance with the vehicle manufacturer's lubrication specification.

Your comment regarding the unreliability of the technical product knowledge expressed by the AMSOIL Dealers with whom you have had contact is very concerning to me. My personal experience is the inverse. Most of the AMSOIL Dealers who I have regular contact with are EXTREMELY proficient in technical product knowledge. Personally, I work VERY HARD to ensure that the AMSOIL Dealers in my Distribution Network are as proficient in their product knowledge as possible.

I will post any future AMSOIL PSF update to the VW TL 52 162.01 spec in this thread.

Cheers!
 
#64 ·
Hi all,
I got the same problem on my 2008 Touareg 3.6L V6. I live in Michigan, but the car was brought from Vegas. Took it to the dealer three times this summer, but they always say that it is normal, and that they can't find any problems! Good thing i found this forum! At least now i can print a few pages of this forum and show these guys on Thursday! There is also one more person with this problem here in Michigan, so please keep us updated. Thanks a lot!
 
Discussion starter · #65 ·
MotoLegends,

I finally got the info on the part that was ordered for my Treg and got returned since it fits only on the Highline and not the Comfortline.

It seems that the Highline is equipped with what VW calls "Servotronic" and we don't have that on the Comfortline.

Part description: Servotronic Control Unit -J236-
Part No.: 7L6 907 160 D
 
Discussion starter · #66 ·
Here is what's been replaced on my Treg 2009 V6 3.6l Comfortline:

May 5th 2010 (pump replacement)
- VWC 7L6422154E (pump)
- VWC 07D145256E (belt)
- VWC N91052201 (screws)
- VWC N10673001 (screws)
- VWC N0138487 (ring)
- VWC G004000M2 (hydrolic oil)

June 11th 2010 ( second pump replacement)
- VWC 7L6422154E (pump)
- VWC N0138487 (ring)


July 14th 2010 (hydrolic system flush)
- VWC G004000M2 (hydrolic oil)

August 14th 2010 (rack replacement)
- VWC 7L6422063BX (mec.direct- the rack)
- VWC G004000M2 (hydrolic oil)
And a bunch of screws, rings and collars

Fall, winter and fall too cold to reproduce the issue. Need 15 degrees celcius and above to reproduce it...

May 2nd 2011 (pressure hose between the pump and rack replacement)
- VWC 7L6422893BT (hose)
- VWC N0138487 (ring)
Rack bolt and the usual oil.

That's what they've done so far. I guess there is not much left to replace except the reservoir and maybe other hoses. The noise is still there... And I'm still waiting for the next step. So far they seem clueless.

MotoLegends, please keep up posted when they'll replace the reservoir and the hose once they receive it from Germany.
 
#67 ·
Ok.. Update. They had it for yet another 3 weeks... replaced yet more parts... Still have issues, actually worse now.

Ok for the good news. I had our Lead Diesel Mx at my work look at the car. He took it for a small test drive and whipped out a stethoscope and harmonic gauge. Within 5 minutes he pointed to the Pulley Assembly Arm and said this is your root cause. At different RPMs and with and without AC he not only felt and heard vibration but can hear the pitch difference over 1000 RPMs. His thought is that the bearings are bad in assembly of the arm. It makes perfect sense since he released pressure of the arm and the noise and vibration was gone. I just called and emailed VW, heading there tomorrow and I hope this solves the problem!!!! Will keep you informed. By the way, VW put in my paperwork that the noise and vibration, is NOT NORMAL.
 
#68 ·
Ok.. Update. They had it for yet another 3 weeks... replaced yet more parts... Still have issues, actually worse now.

Ok for the good news. I had our Lead Diesel Mx at my work look at the car. He took it for a small test drive and whipped out a stethoscope and harmonic gauge. Within 5 minutes he pointed to the Pulley Assembly Arm and said this is your root cause. At different RPMs and with and without AC he not only felt and heard vibration but can hear the pitch difference over 1000 RPMs. His thought is that the bearings are bad in assembly of the arm. It makes perfect sense since he released pressure of the arm and the noise and vibration was gone. I just called and emailed VW, heading there tomorrow and I hope this solves the problem!!!! Will keep you informed. By the way, VW put in my paperwork that the noise and vibration, is NOT NORMAL.
 
#69 ·
Keep us posted MBK. I too agree that this issue is probably in the fluid thinning out when it gets hot.
I have a 2005 V8, with 120k miles and have never had an issue. My wife bought an 2010 early in 2011 and no problems showed up until the summer heat came around. The steering wheel vibration is very annoying. The dealer replaced the pump, and they commented "it is a very agressive pump." Well, it doesn't need to sound and feel like we are driving a 20 year old Minivan with a power steering pump going out does it????
I will put some more heat on my dealer here, but technicians don't really know how to solve problems like they used to and I think this is going to have to come from the top. I will probably be trading the 2010 if nothing gets resolved this winter. Either that or put a restrictor in the hose myself.
bb
 
#70 ·
Ok.. Well they replaced the pulley and as you all guessed... problem is still there. I now agree with a heat problem because when car is operating and outside temp is less than 85 degrees I can barely hear or feel anything, but in the afternoon heat of Vegas at 110... its prominent, annoying and basically pisses me off. I love the vehicle ... except for this. I am agreeing that it must be in a cavating hose, pump or heat related issue. Sorry I was hoping it was the prob.
 
#72 ·
Cheyenne? Cayenne perhaps?

Seriously tho', if your Porker firend is right then perhaps getting some braided pipes made up might be the solution.

Actually, would the Porker parts fit anyway?
 
#73 ·
mbk669 brings on an interesting point on the Porsche Cayenne V6 model. I would cross reference the parts on the VR6 Pepper, and search their forums to see if the same issue even exists. It is worth looking into it, if no one has done so already.



 
#74 ·
mbk699 - Too bad the new pulley did not fix your problem. That was the FIRST part that VW replaced on my Treg - to no avail. Did not comment to that effect here... didn't want to be a "buzz kill" on your hopes.

VolksDude - good points on the Porsche Cayenne V6 power steering hose parts. I have access to EKTA (Porsche/Audi/VW) and will research both.

Further, the Service Adviser working my problem at VW North Scottsdale CONFIRMED that VW have REDESIGNED both power steering hoses (pressure and return) for the Touareg 3.6L V6 application and also have engineered NEW ROUTING of the hoses in an attempt to fix the persistent noise problem.

Suggests to me that the steering noise is related to heat-induced pump cavitation and hose resonance as we have theorized herein.

Apparently, the new set of hoses coming for my Treg (on order now for 4 weeks) are some of the FIRST of the new hose design to ship to North America.

Will advise on Porsche hose part compatibility with Treg 3.6L V6 ASAP and success of new VW hoses once installed on my Treg.
 
#77 ·
Got my '08 V6TDI yesterday. Experiencing the same issue. Exactly the SAME!

I was having hard time describing the issue to mechanics, God i found this thread!!

Symptoms are just the same;

1. The noise /vibration can be described as "a Resonant frequency vibration" and it is felt around 1400 -1800 rpm on the steering wheel more noticeably.
2. Occurs when the engine is on idle as well (but in a lower frequency).
3. Feel it at the steering wheel and nowhere else.
4. Vibration and disturbance is at min. when rolling downwards and with no gas applied. (Good at No Engine load)
5. First time users often do not notice the vibration including experienced mechanics and when they do, they immediately refer it as "Normal"

No engine shakes, no rpm disturbances, nothing else to backup this issue.
 
#78 ·
2011 TDI LUX. Same problem began in first week of ownership and continues today at 9500 miles. Brought the Treg in for the 10K mile checkup and made the complaint again, but didn't say anything about what I've read. Service writer acted like he's never heard of the problem. After reading everything on this site, I find that to be a curious reaction. I had one episode during a slow-speed, left turn where the steering wheel/column shook so violently while being accompanied by the groan that I almost couldn't hang on. The more subtle groaning (I call it "the beast") and a slight vibration are a regular occurance. They typically present themselves at low speed, and seem to be worse for left turns and at higher temps. It happens while turning in forward or reverse. The dealer says he can't reproduce it. How convenient. To me, it acts and sounds like an old Chevy when the P/S pump goes dry, even though the VW's pump is not dry. I do think it is fluid flow related - cavitation or something like that. So...here we go. Fun, fun, fun. From the sounds of things it won't do me much good to push the issue until VW has a cure. I don't want to waste my time replacing parts that don't fix the problem. I've printed these threads and I will show my dealer the mass number of complaints and make sure it is recorded in my file for future evidence should this carry on beyond the warranty period. Except for that one time, I don't think it is a safety problem, just an annoyance like my squeaky "morning" brakes that periodically freaks out my passengers.
 
#79 ·
The "special order parts" required to cure the problem, according to VW Engineering, have been on order for my 2009 T2 since August 23, 2011.

Parts ordered were two newly re-designed power steering hoses (pressure and return lines) and a newly re-designed power steering fluid reservoir.

When the parts were first ordered, the VW Service Adviser working my problem at VW North Scottsdale in Scottsdale, AZ advised that parts arrival was expected "in a couple of weeks".

Nearly six weeks on and still no parts. So, I pinged the chap at VW North Scottsdale again today asking for an update on the ordered parts.

I suspect that VW is having difficulty delivering these new parts into their distribution channel.

I will update again once I learn more on the parts status.

Over the years, experience has taught me to apply the "3X Rule". Seems that everything takes three times longer to accomplish than first predicted and ends up costing 3 times more than originally projected. IMO, the 3X Rule is appropriate in this instance as well.
 
#80 ·
I have asked my Service manager to confirm your findings. We'll see what he comes back with. He tried to tell me much of what is on the web is bogus info and VW will tell him if there is a real problem. So far, he hasn't heard of the problem. Yeah, riiiiighhhttt!
 
61 - 80 of 253 Posts
About this Discussion
252 Replies
76 Participants
Last post:
redbarron55
Club Touareg Forum
posts
784K
members
105K
Since
2003
Club Touareg Forum is a forum community dedicated to Volkswagen Touareg owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about VW Touareg Sport Utility Vehicles and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
General Maintenance & Repair Australia & New Zealand Brakes, Steering, Suspension, Wheels and Tires Mobile Electronics and In Car Entertainment General Touareg Discussions