V10 Glow Plug Blues. ( a little help here?)

beechbum · Apr 12, 2011

I put this in VWVortex last week and now here. I've been away from the forums for a while, any help?

Well Sadly, my 04 V10 has been in the shop for 9 weeks after going in for a replacement of the glow plugs under warranty.

What was reported to me was that one of the glow plugs broke off when removing them. the dealship did not have the proper equipment to remove the engine to get at the headers so we waited on that and new gaskets from Germany. Once they arrived, and word has it they cleaned out the cylinder from all debris from the glow plug and it was reassembled and then we had another problem. The engine is running roughly and a cam problem was detected. The timing sensors were replaced without any change in errors in the in thier vagcom or whatever the dealers uses. Now they are telling me that possibly the timing gear was demagnetized (making the sensor unusable) and they are going to replace that (when they get it from Germany). This leaves me without me Treg for an unkown number of weeks, without even an offer of a loaner. I've had this V10 since '04 and it has been a good vechile but I am worried that I may have serious trouble, especially if something was missed in the cylinder.

So, my question to my fellow TDI'ers is; Does something sound fishy to you?

Thanks in advance for all excellent advice from you all.

somedude · Apr 13, 2011

I am not usually one to complain but I would be pissed beyond belief at this situation.

the timing gear was demagnetized (making the sensor unusable) and they are going to replace that (when they get it from Germany).

This statement alone would make me loose my cool with the service writer. it is a steel gear. it will always be magnetic it is steel!

I think it is very clear that they screwed something up and do not know how to fix it. I would call WV of america and immediately bring this to their attention. You are having serious doubts at the dealers ability to repair your unique and somewhat rare vehicle and are concerned that it is not being repaired properly.

This whole situation sucks for you. What are you doing for transport for the time being?

Fourdiesel · Apr 14, 2011

You brought it in for the glo-plug warranty fix and they DID NOT provide alternate wheels for you to use? That is unacceptable. See if you can get the attention of someone at VW of America. Its beginning to sound like they may have to get you a new engine!!

jeffco50 · Apr 14, 2011

There's a serious problem w/ this recall.

I've been looking at a 2004 V10 for the past 5 weeks. The selling dealer is not a VW dealer and I asked them to have the recall done before the PPI and completion of the sale.
The dealer took 17 days to do the recall and claimed they were waiting for intake bolts that were backordered.
After the recall: airbag fault, running gear fault, the keyless start no longer worked, and a trim piece on the console was broken. I had spent 20+ hours driving this treg and vagged 3 times prior to the recall and none of those issues were there prior:evil:
I had to pass on the deal, so I'm back in the market. Has anyone had this recall done without issue?

somedude · Apr 14, 2011

working on a car is not a difficult thing. It blows my mind that so many people fail so hard at it.

Tdiracing · Apr 14, 2011

Call VW customer care. Get them to open a case on this issue and send out a representative to meet you at the dealer about this. You have rights and they basically ruined your vehicle. Do not stand down...you have to make an effort to get a representative there to address this. Something is very wrong and if it is not addressed I would sue them over it. I see this issue all the time and given all the problems with the glow plug recalls, you are sure to win. I see it mostly in the cars, GP breaks off....dealer tech tries to start the car...smashes the pit all up in cylinder and pieces fly out and destroy the turbocharger...This damages pistons, cylinder head and can even bend the rod in the cylinder...plus kills the turbo.

There have been so many problems with the recall, that on the cars it is now suspended and they are currently not doing it...

Sorry for your luck, but try to be nice and get help. If not go the legal route.

V10 · Apr 14, 2011

You have rights but it is really a legal matter with the dealer and not VW as VW didn't do anything wrong AND the vehicle would not be considered a lemon since it is a know problem created by the dealer. Unless the dealer states that the part broke due to manufacture defect then you might have a chance. Likely the mechanic working for the dealer made a boo-boo and the dealer is now on the hook not VW as they don't own the dealer nor do they hire and pay the techs that work at the dealers...

I'm not saying that VW wouldn't open a case but they will likely only stand to assist the dealer if the dealer asks as they don't want to be pulled into liability when it clearly is the dealers issue. The good news is that the dealer isn't washing their hands of it and is taking responsibility to some degree.

You could likely force the dealer to purchase the vehicle from you if you hired a lawyer to work on your side. Of course, you could always ask the dealer to purchase it back from you but once they get wind you're lawyering up they may stop working on it altogether and wait for a court to make a judgement.

On the rental/loaner car front - ask for one! Due to the circumstances I'm sure someone at the dealer GM level could make this happen...

Tdiracing · Apr 15, 2011

This is a recall and so VW and the dealer are on the hook for this. This was/is an emissions related issue. They are required to have trained mechanics do the work and do it correctly. It is just like a warranty claim. They are BOTH liable. Trust me on this.

FYI: VW does not buy cars back. They pay you money instead or fix it. Dont ask me how I know....lol

V10 · Apr 15, 2011

Dealers are independent, VW isn't responsible for their negligence. It doesn't matter if it is warranty or not, negligence is on the dealer.

If the technician screws up it doesn't automatically become VW's problem just because it is a recall. VW does want satisfied owners so they will likely assist the dealer best they can to resolve since it would be in their interest to do so but the blame is clearly on the dealer.

VW buys cars back, compensates some for lack of use of a vehicle, and pays for inconvenience it all depends on the case.

aircooled · Apr 15, 2011

Tdiracing said:
YI: VW does not buy cars back. They pay you money instead or fix it. Dont ask me how I know....lol

Strange, they bought mine back. Ask me how I know. Of course, I had to fight HARD for it and DOCUMENT EVERYTHING, but in the end cooler heads prevailed and everything got sorted out.

You need to get the GM or owner involved on this one, as well as VW customer care. If the dealer doesn't step up and fix this, they won't get paid for their work from VW, and a $20,000 engine is not something they want to have to pay for out of pocket. VW might also help with a rental or a loaner from the dealer.

somedude · Apr 15, 2011

engines for these are 20K? That seems a bit extreme

beechbum · Apr 18, 2011

Thanks for weighing in fellow treggers. V10 I think you have a good idea of what my options are. Aircooled, thanks for your imput, wasn't your first treg under a year old when you had it bought back? Mine is 6 years old now and I am not sure VWOA is on the hook for this one. I have asked for there help from the begining but they told me I need to work with the dealer. The dealer "says" they are going to fix it but we are still waiting (10 weeks) and I am getting more skeptical by the day.

So here is the update. They replaced the timing gear, guess what, that wasn't the problem. Next step, the claim now is that the passenger side control module (i think thats what is called) is reading an error code. It is coming from the east coast and may be here this week. I hope it works. If it doesn't I don't know what to do next. Hopefully the dealship will give me a fair price for it. btw, they have had the regional mechanic working on it, he is the one who came up with the demagnitized timing gear.

It looks like they will rebuild it before replacing it at this rate, piece by piece. At 20K I can understand why but if that is what they plan on doing I don't want it back based on thier diagnostic prowess so far. It would be hard to give up this vehicle but maybe the time has come to move on as I am 100 miles for the closest VW dealer. Aircooled, I will be talking to the GM this week. I will keep you posted on the progress.

I really have apreciated the forum over the years. It has and contunues to be a great resouce for all things touareg. Keep up the great posts!

somedude · Apr 18, 2011

I am only speaking for myself but at 20K for a engine I would replace it with a LB7 duramax/allison combo far before I would pay that outrageous amount for a engine. Hell with that swap it would be faster and get better mpg anyway.

V10 · Apr 18, 2011

I had a problem with misfiring on my 2004 V10 and it required an engine control unit but they said they (ECU's) needed to be replaced in pairs. I hope if this was accurate they ordered both master & slave For your V10 - perhaps they come together...

beechbum · Apr 22, 2011

Update. Week 12 starting in three days. They replaced the ECM without success. When I suggested that they may need to be replaced in pairs they blew me off. Oh well. The lasted theory is the there is a wiring problem. So they are following that back.

beechbum · Aug 25, 2011

Sorry for not following up. Shortly after my last post the GM Called me telling me everything was fixed. It was the wiring harness with a short. I assume that occurred the FIRST time they removed the engine. A total of three times. The Treg was in the shop for 12 Weeks.

I have waited several months and it has been running fine without problems. But after this experience I am saying good bye to my 04 TDI. All in all it has been a great vehicle and has done everything I could have asked for. The hassle of this last episode of running 100 miles to a dealer has worn me down.

I have always appreciated the fellowship of this forum and I will continue lurking in the future.

Thanks for everything!

major · Sep 2, 2011

Did anybody know how to recognize master and slave ECU ? P/N are this same, but they are not compatibile.

beechbum · Sep 2, 2011

Major,

I am sure they did. They actually flew in a Touareg regional specialist from San Francisco to work on it after the first time they pulled the engine to diagnose the problem.

EulessDave · Jun 22, 2012

I think the Car Talk guys call that "FOTL".

Fell off the lift.

Or what the heart surgeons call "DOTF".

Dropped on the floor.

VW's are known for having intermittent faults for loose ground wires or shorts in the wiring. I can't believe they did that much mechanical work without checking the wiring.

V10 Glow Plug Blues. ( a little help here?)

beechbum

somedude

Fourdiesel

jeffco50

somedude

Tdiracing

V10

Tdiracing

V10

aircooled

somedude

beechbum

somedude

V10

beechbum

beechbum

major

beechbum

EulessDave

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