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groaning/humming/vibration - front differential?

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differential driveshaft drivetrain noise vibration
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#21 ·
interesting comments, I read

my car (an 05 V10) feels like the front differential is locked quite tightly, and is felt during parking speed manouvres, again on road, if the car is pushed hard into a corner, the front diff can be felt to create understeer.

Is this how the car should be ?, or do I understand that there is an ECU that controls a stepper motor to control the diff preload ?. Seems a pretty primitive system if this is the case ?

My car has full VAG service history, and although a new purchase for me, was only serviced 6k miles ago, so would have thought it would have been diagnosed/rectified?

Any thoughts/comments/advice welcomed...
 
#22 ·
The front differential is simple in design, there is no locking mechanism inside it. If the symptoms you are describing are low speed snatching of the wheels on turns for example in a car park then this is indicative of a fault in the central transfer box usualy caused by the stepper motor. Your VAG dealer will be able to tell you if the ECU has had the latest flash upgrade. Sometimes the fault is also indicated by a warning "Stop - Running gear Fault - Workshop" - see posts no's 12 and 13.
Interestingly, whilst replacing the front diff on mine has cured the horrible groaning noise and the replaced transfer box and stepper motor has resolved the above warnings from appearing, I still occasionally get a very faint vibration when the car is started from cold from the drive train but nothing like it used to be. I think this is inherent in the design.
 
#23 ·
pht9 said:
my car (an 05 V10) feels like the front differential is locked quite tightly, and is felt during parking speed manouvres, again on road, if the car is pushed hard into a corner, the front diff can be felt to create understeer.
Click to expand...
I experienced something similar for the first time about a week ago. I wanted to make a U-Turn and, while the car was stationary and the steering wheel turned to full lock, I floored it to catch a gap in the traffic. About halfway through the turn I experienced horrendous understeer and when I backed off the throttle I felt an almighty thump in the drivetrain and then everything was back to normal.

I concluded that, when flooring it, the front wheels started spinning and the ESP/TC engaged the CDL to regain control. Unfortunately, since this happened on a hard asphalt surface, I wound up the drivetrain.

Let's just say I won't be making sudden U-Turns on good asphalt again... :shock:

BTW, like Coloneltom said, the front diff has no locking feature. It's a very straight-forward open differential design. The EDL function on the front axle is achieved by braking individual front wheels with the ABS system, and the standard rear EDL works exactly the same. The optional RDL uses a stepper motor.
 
#24 ·
Coloneltom said:
The front differential is simple in design, there is no locking mechanism inside it. If the symptoms you are describing are low speed snatching of the wheels on turns for example in a car park then this is indicative of a fault in the central transfer box usualy caused by the stepper motor. Your VAG dealer will be able to tell you if the ECU has had the latest flash upgrade. Sometimes the fault is also indicated by a warning "Stop - Running gear Fault - Workshop" - see posts no's 12 and 13.
Interestingly, whilst replacing the front diff on mine has cured the horrible groaning noise and the replaced transfer box and stepper motor has resolved the above warnings from appearing, I still occasionally get a very faint vibration when the car is started from cold from the drive train but nothing like it used to be. I think this is inherent in the design.
Click to expand...
thanks for the advice, will get the dealer to check the version of software, but I would be surprised if it is out of date, with the sevice history the car has, unless an incompetent/lazy dealer....
 
#25 ·
i have a v62oo8..... too much noise from the engine once i move above 1oo kmph....it continues and gets louder as i press on more gas..... what could this be ... i have not taken the car to the service station ... does any one know of some similar probelm...
 
#26 ·
diff noise

the diffs in touaregs use a crush sleeve to set up the the pre load on the bearings ,l have found some off these to be over loaded and bearings collapse.the bearings are the same as ford 9in .l also suggest that diff oils be changed well ahead off service suggestions if any metalic in oil pull diff down and check bearings.
 
#27 ·
I have a 2005 with 52000 miles and have had it since December 2005. For the first
year or so when turning hard to park it would chock like my tundra does on pavement in 4 wheel drive. Just not nearly as bad. I thought the last thing I wanted was the dealer to take it apart. I was just talking Touareg with my VW service advisor and he said there was an update on the software and it fixed the problem completely. I have had very little trouble with my Touareg and have loved driving it. OH TIRES TIRES TIRES well I guess 800.00 a set is a little issue. I am on set #3.
 
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#28 ·
The softeare upgrade probably fixed your stepper motor.

As for tyres, Hankooks or Grabber UHPs should put you right for well over 20K per set.

Vredestein Snowtrac 3 [a proper snow and ice tyre that operates well at under 7 degrees C will set you up for the winter months if you need that kind of traction.

Get a full 4 wheel laser alignment done though when you fit the new tyres and get a full set of 4.
 
#29 ·
How can you say that Vredestein will set the guy up for the winter when we all know that you fit the more budget 'Grabber' tyres to you old weedy bus.
If the old tyres have worn off even then there's no need to have an expensive 4 wheel alignment check done, next he'll be telling us to buy a warranty! YAWN!!
 
#30 ·
Just put the 2005 V6 Treg (70,000 miles) in the shop, wife said there was a noise and vibration from rt. front. Yes more than when we bought it new, but nothing extreme. Shop came back with the news that the front differential needs to be replaced. The price for that little gem is $3,600+; glad I purchased the extended warranty when I did. I have already had the short shaft replaced under original factory waranty. About time to trade!
 
#32 ·
Front differential problem

Same humming noise as other people on my 03 V6 (110k miles). Mechanic says part is £3k as entire diff has to be replaced + labour. Is that the kind of price those of you who have done this job have paid? Is it worth doing or trading car in?


Coloneltom said:
Swapped front diff yesterday. Took me 12 hours all in. Started by locking air suspension in jack mode and placing car on four axle stands, 2 at the back and two just forward of the centre of the car to give room to move. supported the weight of the engine and gearbox by placing a large hydraulic jack under the auto box.
Undid the universal joint knuckle from the steering column and the four main subframe bolts which bolt directly in to the chassis. removed one lower leg bolt on the left side, both upper wishbone knuckles which allows the subframe to sag by about 10 inch. Undid the three main securing bolts and the 18 double six splined bolts. Found there was then just enough room to ease the old diff out. Replacement was a straight reversal although the diff is quite heavy and took some manoevring when you are laid on your back under the car.
Out of curiosity I stripped the old diff to find the only problem was a worn bearing on the input shaft side. The side bearings, crown and pinions and planetary gears were all fine. And yes this finally cured the problem, no more paranoia listening for that horrendous humming and vibration at speed!!
Click to expand...
 
#35 ·
anniek said:
Thanks. Does the whole differential have to be replaced or can you get components. The cost vs value of the car does not stack up.
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See The post above. If you don't have damage to the Crown Wheel and Pinion, then it is bearings set up and labour. Also if you need to find a second hand diff if might be the centres are the same front and rear, which would be worth finding out.

I once did a rear diff on a Nissan patrol, it was common, all rear difffs were hard to find second hand pleny of fronts, found out they were the same and I picked up the front real cheap.
 
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#36 ·
My Touareg is 2005 with 130,000 km of which at least 80,000 off road.
I went to the dealer and took a technician for a drive; he confirmed that the problem was from the front differential. Cost to change it : $ 8,000 Considering that resale value of the car is close to $ 14,000, I am not willing to ditch $ 8,000 and want to find if the differential could be repaired.
 
#37 ·
Coloneltom said:
I have 2004 V10 which I bought 1 year ago and has the same problem, a low hum groaning from 45 - 65 mph and an intermittent knocking especially when cold at low speed which comes from the drive tunnel. I have swapped the rear propshaft as I originally thought it was the centre bearing (not the famous carrier bearing as this was ok) - if you ever remove the rear prop it feels as though the centre bearing "sticks" around the joint, but I found to my cost that they are designed like that from new. By the way if you live in the UK, don't ever buy from VW they are £570 + vat, if you're prepared to wait a month you can buy direct from GKN (who manufacture for VW) for £350 + VAT.
This did not cure the problem so I sourced a recon transfer box and brand new stepper motor. When I changed the transfer box - not a massive job and no need to remove the drive tunnel from inside the car (carefully lower the gearbox on a hydraulic jack untill you can get to the upper gearbox bolts) several ball bearings dropped out of the CV joint on the end of the front prop so I swapped this aswell.
Result - no change, still same humming etc. I did change the oil on the front diff to see what that looked like and there was metallic slick in the oil. I have swapped the tyres front to back but that made no difference. I have had a mechanic from VW look at it and he suggested everything I have done but also thought it could be a front wheel bearing. I have just ordered a set of rattle detector microphones. Having eliminated everything else it can only be the front diff, a front driveshaft or a bearing. When I do find out I'll post the result on here.
Regards Richard
Click to expand...
Any update please?
 
#38 ·
Good Morning,
You have obviously read my later posts on this thread which showed that, having swapped the front diff, the humming / groaning noise has now gone ?
Strangely though, I do still get an intermittent vibration coming up through the drive tunnel every now and again, always from start up and usually goes within a few miles. Some days its non existant, others quite bad literally shaking the car. If I accelerate to say 50 + for a while it goes altogether. Wierd really, given all the stuff I've changed on my car I'm stumped and was wondering whether it was a design fault perhaps on some of the earlier cars. A cold front donut on the rear prop I thought maybe. I've also noticed that if I've parked the car up on grass overnight such as when camping, then set off the next morning it's really bad when I hit smooth tarmac as if the transfer box is trying to work out what to do! I'm going to start a new thread with this to see if anyone else has had similar.
Cheers
Richard
 
#39 ·
This is a very long shot, but what you describe sounds like transmission wind-up especially the going from wet grass to tarmac bit.

Do ever you use the diff lock at all?

Have your tyres got the same tread depth all round within 2mm?
 
#40 ·
I do (very rarely) use the diff lock when I'm towing off road, but this problem occurs at random regardless of where I've parked up. I always garage my car, some mornings nothing, others it will do it. It seems to be going through one of its "bad cycles" of late and I haven't been off road, other than perhaps a few metres on grass (with no diff lock) for months.
 
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