DIY: V10 TDI Intake Removal and cleaning

Hi VW lover, yes I am keen to hear and see documented your troubles and tribulations. I am sure many others on this forum too will concur.

Your rant made good reading. The V10 does seem excessively complex for the sake of it. But with an engineering thinking mind when designing such a thing, it is no wonder with Dr Piech's directives that we ended up with what we have in front of us. But we had the choice to not get involved.

This youtube clip here below is one I have watched numerous times. I can't understand a word of it, but you get the jist of what is going on in there. Really does make one tremble to think if they have to get inside their V10 for even simple work like an alternator change, or AC compressor change or that gear set on the back of the engine block!.


Thankfully I have an extended warranty which covers most things like this and others. Will be leaning on it this month for the LHS fuel pump (I think that's right Drag?) change out. Smoke rising from behind the LHS cylinder head area. Not sure if the link will work.


Regards

Pete.

Hi Pete,

I totally understand where you are coming from and respect your opinion even if I don't completely agree with everything you've stated.

My Dad was a machine fitter (millwright in North America) and some of my fondest memories as a young teenager are being under the bonnet with him working on his Ford Ranger, or doing oil changes in all weather, back when oil had to be changed every 3000 miles.

He worked at most of the big automotive plants in and near to Toronto ie. Ford, Chrysler and Honda in Alliston. He installed new production lines when the company decided to retool and modernise their models.

You and him are well trained and highly skilled whereas I would describe myself as only slightly better than average when it comes to mechanical stuff. So I find unnecessarily complex repairs a royal pain, especially at the roadside.

My point is that there was not a lot of free and honest open source independent third party information on the Bora or VWs in general when I bought it new in 2001. There were the usual manufacturer endorsed paid reviews all saying how great it was but even now online reviewers don't look at general repair considerations when reviewing a new vehicle.

The internet was a vastly different place then (2001 - mostly porn) than it is now and thankfully there are sites like this one for people to share experiences, encourage discussion and speak their truth.

To my knowledge there was no one at that time giving honest practical advice saying to be wary of VWs in terms of certain repairs as they were more complex and required tools the average person doesn't own.

I didn't know there was a computer module inside each door and to get to it their was a nuclear rated metal blast shield riveted under the door skin. Jap stuff didn't have this complexity and very rarely failed.

If I had known about this one difference it would have been enough on it's own for me to make an informed decision and I would have purchased differently.

So, my point being that I couldn't make an informed choice at that time and I have been hooked ever since, despite the accumulating negatives.

If the knowledgeable people I spoke to at the time hadn't sugar coated it (mechanics at the time told me it doesn't matter what you buy - everything breaks down) I probably would have stuck with Japanese and American cars/trucks and never gone German in the first place.Buying that brand new German car was without doubt the biggest motoring mistake I've made. Not because of depreciation.

Am simply putting it out there that people doing their research prior to purchase should have access to the honest truth but no one is writing it down for them to read for them to make an informed decision/calculated risk.

Sure there are independent forums now for most cars and trucks which offer excellent information on DIY repairs, sourcing parts, etc. But is anyone n the forums truly warning people their brand will cost more in repairs than others?

We are all individuals and are shaped by our unique experiences under the bonnet and elsewhere in the world.

I just know what works best for me and that is based upon driving a combination of American, Japanese and VW cars approx 1,000,000 miles in the harsh Canadian climate of -40 C to +40 C where I was raised.

To do that kind of mileage without a major or minor component failure, without an electrical fault, without a CEL, without a door handle breaking is a testament to the overall build quality of the Hondas at that time.

They were twice the age and had over twice the mileage of the VWs and ran without complaint in those extreme conditions.

I wish those same kudos could be applied to my experiences with the younger and lower mileage VW product at that time but they can't.

Up until last year I had a 20 year old Honda. It ran like a new car, rock solid, all the electrics worked, couldn't fault it. My five year old B6 Passat is another story. Constantly going into limp mode, bonnet wouldn't close, one rear passenger door and rear hatch wouldn't unlock, etc. With the exception of limp mode all the rest are buried under unnecessary stuff and the doors require VCDS to put right. More unnecessary expense.

I do love the VW brand but when a 5 year old Passat is getting shown up by a car four times its age and twice the mileage then there's no denying which I the inferior product.

Door handles breaking, electrical faults upon electrical faults, window mechanisms failing and the interior metal panel is riveted to the door which makes it harder to get to for repair and then because the mechanism is bolted to the inside of the panel you need a pop rivet gun in your tool box to put it all back in place or your window doesn't stay up.

You don't want that kind of draft when you are 90 motorway miles from home during a Canadian winter because you forgot to bring your rivet gun with you.

As most VW people will now know the plastic clips on the window mechanism weren't strong enough and would fail in cold weather. They can now be replaced with metal aftermarket ones. Which wasn't of any use back then.

Why pop rivet a robust metal panel inside the door card but then use cheap and delicate plastic clips to hold the heavy window to the mechanism? They are designed to fail and unless you own a rivet gun and happen to have it with you, you either elect to hold the window up the entire 90 miles home or pay someone else to fix it for you. That's not what I call having a choice.

Ingress of water.

Never had a car other than VW that leaks rain water into the vehicle. Have owned Chevy, GMC, Ford, Chrysler, AMC, Honda, Toyota and not one of them leaked, EVER.

But each VW I've owned has.And we all know what water and electricity have in common? £££ $$$ to someone else, again.

I knew German guy called Wolfgang. He lived in Canada when I was a kid. His VW van broke down 10 miles from home during the winter. He was a top bloke but a little on the stubborn side. Go figure?

He fixed the problem and drove home. He took off his footwear and his toes were black from frostbite. He had all ten toes amputated pretty sharpish.

I can go on and on with horror stories of how VW has failed me and people I know.

Because of the complexities of the components this means you could actually die from exposure before you manage to fix it if you live in a severe climate.

The old adage IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT is well known. Am changing it to IF IT AIN'T A VW, YOU DON'T HAVE TO 'FIX' IT and going to get a bumper sticker made up. This truly sums up my overall disappointment with the brand.

I appreciate there will be millions of VW purists with wholly different VAG experiences and opinions to mine and I respect that.

However I have learned the hard way what makes for an easier motoring life and its Japanese.

EL OH EL.

Perhaps you should apply to VWs engineering team and enlighten all those idiots. Clearly you are much more versed in engine building.

Henry Ford wouldn’t even know where to begin with guiding the V10 design team about “simplicity”.

It’s probably best you stick with purchasing cars made prior to 1990 if you want “ease of repair”. Modern cars are much more difficult to repair, and getting more so each model year.

Try replacing the stereo without a diagnostic tool on the new Toyota you so badly want to purchase next and see if everything is peaches and cream. All new modern cars pretty much require a diagnostic tool for anything other than basic maintenance.

ALL manufacturers would prefer if their customers didn’t turn their own wrench. Just ask John Deere owners. I’m not saying that it’s right, but that’s how it is and there doesn’t appear to be a sign of that changing. Vehicles and equipment are turning towards a subscription/lease system where you simply pay to use the item, and don’t outright own it.

To anyone contemplating cleaning your V10 tdi intake manifolds while on the vehicle my advice is not to waste your time and money.

I have lost count of the (4 or 5) attempts and hours wasted using liqui moly diesel intake cleaner with the snake, seafoam and pump diesel in a spray bottle aimed at the ASV.

Although they did work as promised and got rid of a LOT of carbon there is still too much in the manifold to claim it a success.

You could pay a garage to Terra clean your engine with a chemical solution under pressure or remove the intakes yourself and source a parts cleaner from a local shop like Haywood801 did.

Here is the EGR side of my intake manifold after 4 or 5 spray cleanings and approx 3 wasted hours on the vehicle:


As expected, the closest intake valve and port to the egr was the cleanest as most the the cleaning solutions would have found their way in there due to being heavier than air:


You can just about see some bare metal on the valve stem.
Check out the difference on the valve at the opposite end of the cylinder block:



To get at the bolts I used the following:

Mastercraft ratchet, approx 12 inch long extension bar and about an 8 inch long ball end 6mm hex socket aka H6:



The centre bolt on bank 2 is tricky to access due to the oil filler tube being in the way. It is possible to get it out without stripping the head if you are careful and put light lateral pressure against the oil tube before going into the bolt head.



It will help to remove the oil filler cap as well as dislodging and lowering the rubber neck at the rear of the filler tube.

You could also cover the oil filler tube with a rag if you want to.

I couldn't find a magnetic H6 extension online so resorted to long pliers to assist in extracting the bolts where the pliers would fit and then a tiny bit of latex glove between the ball end of the H6 and the bolt itself for where the pliers wouldn't fit.

Of course it helps if your tools have a Maple leaf on them:

This doesn't reflect directly against the mighty V10 however it is a representation of all models across each brand.

It makes for pretty grim reading especially as Audi is bringing up the rear, so to speak.