Sport Shift

NTDI · Sep 25, 2018

For a 2013 Touareg Exec TDI:

Does anyone know if it is possible to do one of the following:

Set the shift schedule so downshifting places the vehicle in 4th gear from 6th gear? I find I have to manually downshift twice from cruise to get any appreciable deceleration. Curious if it is possible to have it automagically jump from 6th to 4th upon pressing the downshift button one time.

Also curious if it is possible to set the vehicle to default to sport mode rather than D mode. I'd prefer it to remember which mode I was in when I shut the vehicle off....

TurdBurgler · Sep 25, 2018

NTDI said:
For a 2013 Touareg Exec TDI:

Does anyone know if it is possible to do one of the following:

Set the shift schedule so downshifting places the vehicle in 4th gear from 6th gear? I find I have to manually downshift twice from cruise to get any appreciable deceleration. Curious if it is possible to have it automagically jump from 6th to 4th upon pressing the downshift button one time.

Also curious if it is possible to set the vehicle to default to sport mode rather than D mode. I'd prefer it to remember which mode I was in when I shut the vehicle off....

A long time ago, a buddy of mine that raced on the track told me that brake parts are a LOT less expensive to replace than drive train parts, so he slowed down on the race track accordingly.

Make your own decision, but diesels, in general have very very poor compression braking, there is nothing to restrict the air intake, since the motor doesn't run stoichiometrically, like a gasser does.

Brakes and rotors are cheap, transmissions, intake and exhaust valves, timing chains and such from sudden acceleration of the engine rpms down shifting, are not. A diesel is basically a low RPM motor.

Hope that helps with your braking decisions, choose wisely.

Answer is No.

Based on your driving patterns, I think you should have bought a V6 3.6 gasser. Sport mode is pretty much a waste in a TDI, it completely defeats what a diesel motor is designed for and does best, it's a gimmick. Fine on a sports car, not so much a 5000 # SUV on a truck chassis.

Put it in Drive and let the 8 speed gear box do it's job the way the german engineers envisioned. Save Sport mode for track days.

NTDI · Sep 25, 2018

I just found it annoying that downshifting through 8 gears takes 3-4 downshift to even notice the start of engine braking. Also brakes are cheaper, but sometimes you want to use the brakes AND have the engine down shift at the same time. If you've ever driven a GM Duramax truck the auto downshift and gear hold on a downhill is nice. The Touareg doesn't offer such smart shifting as far as I know. And I think it's sort of silly to have to downshift three times to even get the engine into an RPM band where it creates some braking effect. I notice on my 5 speed TDI going down a hill with no throttle spools the turbo to make boost. It's a nice driving experience, and in a way how it should be. If I'm on the brakes going down a hill the turbo should be near peak boost (probably bleeding excess pressure) and it should be about in the middle of the RPM band so on the other side of the hill I can just add throttle. Sport mode is close... hence my question.

I understand transmission parts are expensive. But there are certain times where driving the vehicle as a system makes sense.

Are the engines and transmissions on the T3s really that fragile that they can't be downshifted? How many miles should I expect to get before I need to replace timing chain/belt and overhaul the trans clutches...

Also sport mode is nice because it holds a gear so it behaves more like a manual gearbox and, as far as I know that is less wear on trans clutch parts than constantly up shifting and down shifting.. its the slipping of the clutches between shifts that causes the real wear, unless we are talking about fatigue of metal gears and shafts. Around town its almost pointless to be in D because response time is long to get above 4th gear and as bad downshifting again. Around town it seems especially at low speeds I spend more time waiting for gear shifts than actually applying the power (my town has A LOT of stop signs). For this reason sometimes I simply drive in S mode; that way there's less time spent waiting for a shift and I can simply let off the throttle to start slowing down... like a manual.

TurdBurgler · Sep 25, 2018

NTDI said:
I just found it annoying that downshifting through 8 gears takes 3-4 downshift to even notice the start of engine braking. Also brakes are cheaper, but sometimes you want to use the brakes AND have the engine down shift at the same time. If you've ever driven a GM Duramax truck the auto downshift and gear hold on a downhill is nice. The Touareg doesn't offer such smart shifting as far as I know. And I think it's sort of silly to have to downshift three times to even get the engine into an RPM band where it creates some braking effect. I notice on my 5 speed TDI going down a hill with no throttle spools the turbo to make boost. It's a nice driving experience, and in a way how it should be. If I'm on the brakes going down a hill the turbo should be near peak boost (probably bleeding excess pressure) and it should be about in the middle of the RPM band so on the other side of the hill I can just add throttle. Sport mode is close... hence my question.

I understand transmission parts are expensive. But there are certain times where driving the vehicle as a system makes sense.

Are the engines and transmissions on the T3s really that fragile that they can't be downshifted? How many miles should I expect to get before I need to replace timing chain/belt and overhaul the trans clutches...

Also sport mode is nice because it holds a gear so it behaves more like a manual gearbox and, as far as I know that is less wear on trans clutch parts than constantly up shifting and down shifting.. its the slipping of the clutches between shifts that causes the real wear, unless we are talking about fatigue of metal gears and shafts. Around town its almost pointless to be in D because response time is long to get above 4th gear and as bad downshifting again. Around town it seems especially at low speeds I spend more time waiting for gear shifts than actually applying the power (my town has A LOT of stop signs). For this reason sometimes I simply drive in S mode; that way there's less time spent waiting for a shift and I can simply let off the throttle to start slowing down... like a manual.

Nothing personal... I think you bought the wrong vehicle for your needs. I don't foresee you having a happy ownership experience with your Common Rail Diesel TDI Touareg. IMHO..... This isn't your 5 speed TDI. Sorry. You need to adapt to your new to you Touareg diesel TDI.... the vehicle doesn't adapt to you.

sootie · Sep 26, 2018

Get the cayanne TCM strategy in it as it has a reportedly sportier feel.

NTDI · Sep 26, 2018

I think I bought exactly the right Touareg for me. I wanted the 3.0 TDI. The shift schedule is a minor annoyance to me I guess... it WOULD be nice to fix it to make better sense. It seems like lazy programming in manual mode to simply have to downshift through 2 over drives to get to 5th or 6th where engine braking starts to do something. Skipping right to 4th or 5th gear would be a simple matter of calculating engine speed based on vehicle speed and incline level and then picking the right gear to conservatively put the vehicle in the right RPM band. I don't see it as a huge wear issue. But I guess perhaps for warranty reasons why encourage drivers to enjoy driving their car that much. Also as far as I can tell the 8 speed in the Touareg is rated for the Cayenne turbo V8s, so wear and tear should be minimum considering the HP and torque difference between the engines.

The same goes for sport mode recall. VW put a sport mode on it. Why not start up in sport mode if thats where it was left. If sport mode was an issue for longevity perhaps they should not have included it at all.

I think the entire point of owning the Touareg is to enjoy it as I see fit. Maybe I'll wear parts out quickly... maybe it'll need a new transmission. But isn't that my decision to make not VWs especially as I'm out of the warranty period...

I'll have to look into the Cayanne shift schedule and see whats entailed to flash that onto the trans controller... maybe that'll fix my issue. Or maybe I just need a trans tune.

Scubacruiser · Sep 26, 2018

Coding the transmission to the Cayenne map is easy with VCDS. I notice a difference from the standard Touareg map. However, engine braking was programmed out with the emissions fix. If you want a properly functioning transmission, look for the thread on here for getting your TCM flashed to original.

Also, in S, a quick blip of the accelerator pedal will cause the transmission to downshift one gear. I use that instead of manual mode when decelerating. It was much better on the T2, but still effective. Once you get the hang of it, you can come to a near stop without using the brakes.

NTDI · Sep 26, 2018

How did it perform behave before the emissions fix?

I'll have to give it a try to blip the throttle. I guess I can understand why they mapped engine braking out. It's a shame though because that makes driving nicer.

Thumper3 · Nov 12, 2018

TurdBurgler said:
A long time ago, a buddy of mine that raced on the track told me that brake parts are a LOT less expensive to replace than drive train parts, so he slowed down on the race track accordingly.

No offense, but no idea what kind of 'racing' your buddy did but I have an inkling he might have been an armchair driver. The old "brakes are cheaper than engine parts" is a classic of the uninformed. Downshifting is a required skill and technique to be successful on the track, no one is wringing their hands about engine wear from increasing the RPMs on a downshift in a race car.

You should visit Pikes Peak sometime, I would love to be there as you explain to the Ranger at the brake check that your rotors are glowing red and pads melting off because pads are cheaper than your engine. :grin:

Now, if your idea of a downshift is dumping 4 gears at a time and pegging redline then yeah, I would worry about the "sudden acceleration" of the engine, but then I would also suggest you learn how to properly downshift as well. Proper downshifting is a much safer way to operate on the roads as well by maintaining idle engine power at all times, by downshifting as you brake and decelerating naturally if you need to apply the power to avoid an accident the engine is at the right level to accelerate. By "leaving the 8-speed to do as it was designed" if you had to apply power you would be faced with lag and delay as the transmission attempts to find a gear, and it still won't be a power gear, it'll just drop into a gear at cruise RPM usually.

I do agree that doing as the OP wants in skipping gears is not a good idea nor proper downshifting, but that's because I would recommend the correct downshifting procedure that keeps the vehicle settled and in the proper powerband.

Just because these are SUVs doesn't mean we have to drive them like clueless soccer moms, there's no excuse not to drive properly no matter what vehicle you are in.

My 2c

NTDI · Nov 12, 2018

Thumper3 said:
I do agree that doing as the OP wants in skipping gears is not a good idea nor proper downshifting, but that's because I would recommend the correct downshifting procedure that keeps the vehicle settled and in the proper powerband.

Just because these are SUVs doesn't mean we have to drive them like clueless soccer moms, there's no excuse not to drive properly no matter what vehicle you are in.

My 2c

I think you misunderstand me. The question of shifting properly is moot in this case. If I am cruising in 8th gear in a manual car and I want to immediately get into the proper RPM band and engine brake, I'm not going to downshift to 7th let the clutch out and then immediately down shift to 6th. I'm going to intuitively go from 8th to 6th because I know 6th is the right gear to be in given the intent and conditions. If I am racing at high speed I typically will want every gear to achieve racing speeds. (What is redline top speed in 8th gear anyway???).

For highway driving the goal is slightly different. In away its a combination of laziness and minimizing transmission wear AND having a more effective drive-train experience. If I'm cruising at 65 MPH and want to downshift because traffic is slowing ahead, I must downshift twice. Each shift takes a set number of milliseconds, thus the amount of time it takes to start to get engine braking is quite long. However, if I can skip right to 6th gear (or even 5th) from 8th at 65 MPH I save one or two shifts and the milliseconds that go with them. I also reduce slipping the clutch multiple times to engage and then immediately disengage. The question is how much wear and tear it really saves, as all shifts require the clutches to slip. The engine RPM is a slightly different issue as it COULD be blipped with throttle to RPM match (as I would do on a true manual going from 8th to 5th). Of coure the Touareg isn't premium enough to have this feature. Also speed and crispness of shifts is not quite as good as I would have hoped.

For these reasons I decided to switch to the Cayenne trans program. It appears better suited for performance driving and congested city driving. Shifts are both quicker and firmer. It is much better. However still leaves something to be desired. One major complaint I have is just the time it takes for one shift. It seems to be seconds not half seconds. Also the computer is a bit too conservative in shifting. I've found in S mode I can hold gears longer than even in manual mode. Which to me is odd. It seems there is no coupling of the shifts to the stability acceleration sensors. Also at times it downshifts me when it shouldn't. Though I have to say one nice thing even in Manual mode is the auto downshift .

I guess all in all there is a lot to be desired from the transmission calibration...

Black Grouse · Nov 12, 2018

NTDI said:
For these reasons I decided to switch to the Cayenne trans program. It appears better suited for performance driving and congested city driving. Shifts are both quicker and firmer. It is much better. However still leaves something to be desired. One major complaint I have is just the time it takes for one shift. It seems to be seconds not half seconds. Also the computer is a bit too conservative in shifting. I've found in S mode I can hold gears longer than even in manual mode. Which to me is odd. It seems there is no coupling of the shifts to the stability acceleration sensors. Also at times it downshifts me when it shouldn't. Though I have to say one nice thing even in Manual mode is the auto downshift .

I guess all in all there is a lot to be desired from the transmission calibration...

That's why VW Group has built/sold both the Cayenne and the Touareg - they go into different market sectors - it sounds like you bought the wrong model.

gazaflash · Nov 12, 2018

I am confused!
NTDI, you are saying that the transmission doesn’t shift correctly? What!
These Aisin transmissions shift very well. Your tractor Duramax tranny is not even in the same ballpark. The transmission is very intuitive.
How about a reset on the transmission first before any judgment. These are not a slush box per sé.
The Aisin transmission is good for 1000Nm torque. If you are looking for a downshift by 2 gears then it will do it based on wheel speed, traction, steering angle, slip angle, load, throttle position, brake position, yaw, acceleration and deceleration and the what radio station you are listening to... (sorry, not the last one!).
If you want the transmission to stay in sport mode, then don’t put it in D but S! It will the use the different maps then.

Thumper3 · Nov 13, 2018

NTDI said:
I think you misunderstand me. The question of shifting properly is moot in this case. If I am cruising in 8th gear in a manual car and I want to immediately get into the proper RPM band and engine brake, I'm not going to downshift to 7th let the clutch out and then immediately down shift to 6th. I'm going to intuitively go from 8th to 6th because I know 6th is the right gear to be in given the intent and conditions.

I did not misunderstand, you are looking to mimic the abilities of a manual in an automatic. They are mechanically different. As you point out in a manual you completely disengage the clutch, rev match and re-engage. This is not how an automatic works, the clutch packs and torque converter operate completely differently, it's like trying to figure out how to make ice cream in a microwave because the ice cream churn does it. lol

NTDI said:
For these reasons I decided to switch to the Cayenne trans program. It appears better suited for performance driving and congested city driving. Shifts are both quicker and firmer. It is much better. However still leaves something to be desired. One major complaint I have is just the time it takes for one shift. It seems to be seconds not half seconds. Also the computer is a bit too conservative in shifting. I've found in S mode I can hold gears longer than even in manual mode.

See this is what confuses me, you start out trying to make your auto perform like a manual........when it already has a manual mode..........and then go out of your way to drive in auto? I drive in manual and can tell you shifts do not take seconds. Auto may be a bit slower which is to be expected because the engineers gave us manual mode if we want more performance and they left auto more tame for those that don't.

Manual will only up shift to protect the engine as you approach redline. Sport shifts much lower than redline, unless you are standing on it and pushing past kickdown and even then it should force the change on the same protection level as manual. And again, you are trying to use one mode to get the results of a different mode. The engineers gave us 3 modes so each driver can tailor the drive to what they prefer. Auto is for those who just want to drive around, Sport is for those that want that extra performance from 1000 or so more RPMs, and manual mode is for those that want to hammer RPMs (or like me who just prefer to have total control and the ability to drive reasonably or madly without changing modes). Are you saying that you have compared and manual will engage the safety shift at a substantially lower RPM than standing on the kickdown in Sport?? There's not much power up that far in the range on these diesels so I have never forced it into redline area.

For those that want just that bit more the Cayenne program should do it as Porsche normally program more aggressive shifts in everything, if it's still lacking in your driving experience I guess you just have to lament that they didn't give us a true DSG (which still won't let you skip gears lol).

RocketTech · Nov 13, 2018

I'm not understanding the pissing contest on how to shift a very well engineered vehicle with adequate measures to prevent damage to the driveline.
To answer the actual question, I'm not aware of a way to force a double down-shift without touching the intervening gear at least momentarily in the Aisin Auto 8. YRKtreg may know if it's possible. Doing a quick double downshift in manual is my method.
I agree with applying the Cayenne TCU mapping- it made a big difference on mine, with more aggressive down-shifting and more engine braking. It's a setting in VCDS, so no flash needed.

crewofwillypm · Nov 13, 2018

TurdBurgler said:
Nothing personal... I think you bought the wrong vehicle for your needs. I don't foresee you having a happy ownership experience with your Common Rail Diesel TDI Touareg. IMHO..... This isn't your 5 speed TDI. Sorry. You need to adapt to your new to you Touareg diesel TDI.... the vehicle doesn't adapt to you.

All good advice here . I have owned two Duramax vehicles in the past along with other VW TDI's over the years .

RocketTech · Nov 13, 2018

TurdBurgler said:
You need to adapt to your new to you Touareg diesel TDI.... the vehicle doesn't adapt to you.

From What is Dynamic Shift Program in the 2016 VW Touareg? :
"Driver input also has an influence over the transmission, so a sportier ride may be expected if you’re a speedy driver, while those who are a little light on the pedal will enjoy a smoother ride. Slow speeds tend to result in more frequent gear shifts, while faster driving results in the transmission staying in gear longer at higher revs."

TurdBurgler · Nov 13, 2018

RocketTech said:
From What is Dynamic Shift Program in the 2016 VW Touareg? :
"Driver input also has an influence over the transmission, so a sportier ride may be expected if you’re a speedy driver, while those who are a little light on the pedal will enjoy a smoother ride. Slow speeds tend to result in more frequent gear shifts, while faster driving results in the transmission staying in gear longer at higher revs."

With all due respect, sir, having owned just about every TDI model made, save the Golf iV, and Passat V chassis, as well as a 2012 sport tdi, 2013 sport tdi, and 2014 Touareg Lux TDI, let's just agree to disagree. Being a "speedy" driver means nothing... it's all in how conservative or aggressive your acceleration is, that controls shifting.

New Century VW down in Glendale, CA is full of cow manure. Probably trying to upsell to the Armenian public down there, which in general, are terribly aggressive drivers, prone to showing off their wealth. They are far more inclined to drive an Audi, BMW or MB than a lowly VW. I drive Burbank, Glendale, and Pasadena, all the time, know the area well. Don't be fooled, that crowd will buy the Cayenne, instead. Image is everything, down there.

RocketTech · Nov 13, 2018

TurdBurgler said:
Probably trying to upsell to the Armenian public down there, which in general, are terribly aggressive drivers, prone to showing off their wealth.

Turd, your bigotry is showing. The ethnicity of drivers has nothing to do with the fact the Touareg has an adaptive shift program which, as the name suggests, adapts to different driving styles- contrary to your claim. Slurring people to appear as an authority damages your credibility; it doesn't raise it.
Why not make the time and effort to be inclusive of everyone here- at least everyone that enjoys Touaregs?

sootie · Nov 13, 2018

RocketTech · Nov 13, 2018

sootie said:
You in politics? Where did he mention ethnicity?

Where he mentioned Armenians. Armenian is an ethnicity.

Sport Shift

NTDI

TurdBurgler

NTDI

TurdBurgler

sootie

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Scubacruiser

NTDI

Thumper3

NTDI

Black Grouse

gazaflash

Thumper3

RocketTech

crewofwillypm

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TurdBurgler

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sootie

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