V6 TDI DPF/NoX cat delete - Page 7 - Club Touareg Forums
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post #61 of 81 Old 01-25-2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamajet View Post
Some valid arguments, but WOW what a crazy Ivan turn off the tracks we have taken here. Apparently hackles are up and for further entertainment and provocation....

What should be done about those owners with <2012 models, that for some reason, have chosen to keep their vehicles vice returning them to VW? Or those with 2013 and later who have elected not to apply the EPA/CARB approved emissions modification?

I don’t care what someone drives or what they do to it.
Drive a hybrid, gasser, diesel, electric, whatever suits them. If primary concern is emissions, perhaps a choice other than a TDI is appropriate.

And what of those that keep their gasser vehicle in a
barely running state or those with under inflated tires. What of their pollution contribution?

Don’t recall starting it but it has been an interesting dialogue.

Over and out..


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I believe it's called tampering with emissions systems. It's illegal. As for the older vehicles, if the emissions systems are still in place and functional, they've been grand fathered in that way. If you don't like the laws, vote for people that will change them. I don't see any candidates in USA or Canada that are suggesting we remove our EPA, CARB or what ever pollution standards you have on vehicles in USA or Canada. It is what it is.

Frankly, whether I am driving or at home or anywhere... I don't want to smell your diesel, inhale any exhaust any more dirty/polluting than necessary if I am behind you, or near you, or hear your vehicle with it's noise pollution. Save all that crap, stink, noise, performance etc for closed course competition on the race track. If it's registered for public streets, your vehicle, it should be held to public standards the rest of us comply with. Again, driving is not a right, it's a privilege, it can be removed by the government, should you deliberately chose not to comply. Yanking the filters is a deliberate emissions defeat modification... no if's, ands, or buts.
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post #62 of 81 Old 01-25-2019
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Yes Turdburgler, I’m aware of all that. Rhetorical questions are those. But thanks for your continued emphasis about it being illegal.


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post #63 of 81 Old 01-25-2019 Thread Starter
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Let us not attack those with differing “opinions”. Let us not feed their disgruntlement. This thread has derailed. Let’s keep it on the topic of removing the DPF system. Those whom think differently can create their own thread on their views.

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post #64 of 81 Old 01-25-2019
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Ooh, it been a while since we've had to lock some accounts down, but there is that option.

Please keep this on topic, technical and non-political. Read our Terms of Service if you don't believe me.
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post #65 of 81 Old 01-25-2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascarmark View Post
Bottom line is better fuel mileage means one is burning less fuel period. That never seems to be brought up in these discussions. Burning less has a bigger effect in total. Less the refineries have to run, less the pipelines have to push, less the big tankers have to deliver the fuels to the pumping stations, less out of ones pocket.
What you're missing here is, that all this is better, because of the lower environmental impact it has. Less fuel is better, because it results in less harmful emissions. But it results only in less harmful emissions if everything stays the same, including the filter being in place. However, if you're only getting a better mileage because you've removed the filter, then your net emissions will actually increase. And it will increase like up to 20-50-fold in the case of a modern DPF, while your mileage might improve by how much? 5%? So, you've a gain of 5% against the loss of 2000-5000%. The net difference will be still a 1995-4995% increase in harmful emissions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascarmark View Post
It all adds up. The electric cars may not pollute but it sure does take a lot of polluting to make the batteries for these cars & the batteries will have to be changed out at least once for the life of the car. Not to mention most countries have to either burn fossil fuels to make their power to supply charging power for them.
Again, all this is about efficiency and net gains. Even if power plants have to burn the same fuel as cars do, they can be run more effectively, and their emissions can also be filtered more effectively, just because of their sheer size and how things scale. 1000 cars with 3.0 liter engines generate far more waste heat and operate far less efficient in total, than does a single combustion chamber with 3000 liters in a power plant, and the latter can also efficiently employ filtering methods with greater efficiency, that are not feasible to be implemented or built into each car separately.

Also, power plants don't have to waste energy on carrying their combustion chambers and filtering equipment with themselves, because you know, they just don't move. But cars have to burn a lot of fuel just for the sake of being able to carry their own engines and filtering equipment with them.

So, even if power plants are burning the very same fuel as do the cars, it still make more sense to burn that in them, than in the cars separately. And of course there are more and more power plants everywhere, that do not actually work by burning fossil fuels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascarmark View Post
So it's more about the $ for the gov than the health risks.
If it would be, why would they subsidize technologies that are less harmful to the environment? They are actually losing (carbon) taxes with those, and they are even paying on top of that? They must be stupid. Either that, or your assumption about the evil government being out only for the money and not caring about health/environment impacts is just false.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascarmark View Post
Carbon tax is just that...tax. Another way to milk the common folk of their hard earned $.
You realize the government can levy tax on anything and everything it wants to, not just on carbon, right? They don't need fossil fuels for that. This is actually the reason why they don't actually cling to combustion engines and are actually subsidizing alternative ways to generate power.

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Originally Posted by Nascarmark View Post
So the EPA pencil pushers can't see the forest through the tree's.
Or maybe you just give too much credit for conspiracy theories, while not being aware of actual facts? See above!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascarmark View Post
Don't get me wrong, I'm not for everyone to be rolling coal or ignoring the facts that we are slowly polluting our planet. I'm just pointing out the facts the gov doesn't seem to be serious about taking the steps to help clean up the biggest things polluting our planet.
Even if that would be or (let's assume) is true, two wrongs don't make a right, do they? The fact "the government" might not do its best to stop pollution doesn't mean we should go out of our way to cause (or even tolerate others causing) multiple magnitudes more pollution with our vehicles for marginal gains, if any, right?
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post #66 of 81 Old 01-25-2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chewblekka View Post
Let us not attack those with differing “opinions”. Let us not feed their disgruntlement. This thread has derailed. Let’s keep it on the topic of removing the DPF system.
Well, aren't we talking just about that? Ie. how "removing the DPF system" affects the working of the car, fuel consumption and emissions? Even the original post was talking about all these. Then these can't be possibly off-topic, right? More like an inconvenient truth, for some?
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post #67 of 81 Old 01-25-2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnits View Post
Well, aren't we talking just about that? Ie. how "removing the DPF system" affects the working of the car, fuel consumption and emissions? Even the original post was talking about all these. Then these can't be possibly off-topic, right? More like an inconvenient truth, for some?
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post #68 of 81 Old 01-25-2019
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Originally Posted by aircooled View Post
Please keep this on topic, technical and non-political. Read our Terms of Service if you don't believe me.
I just did that. It says:
"You may not
[..]
Use the Web Site to instigate or encourage others to commit illegal activities [..]
Use the Web Site to post or transmit any unlawful [..] information of any kind, including without limitation any transmissions constituting or encouraging conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, give rise to civil liability or otherwise violate any local, state, provincial, national or international law
[..]"

Now considering that tampering with emission systems is illegal in most jurisdictions, that surely would mean that any "DPF delete" thread per se is in violation of the ToS, whereas comments pointing out the illegality or environment and health impacts of that are not, wouldn't it?

I've also been looking for the word "political" in the ToS, but it did not result in any matches. Am I maybe looking at the wrong ToS?
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post #69 of 81 Old 01-25-2019
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post #70 of 81 Old 01-25-2019
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Nonetheless the ToS I have linked should also apply. So, aren't then based on that all "DPF delete" threads against the rules, by definition?
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