Transmission and differential fluid change - Page 2 - Club Touareg Forums
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post #11 of 46 Old 02-13-2019 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TurboABA View Post
You went 200k first..... I say you're not allowed to use terms like "regular or preventative maintenance" (even though you didn't do the whole 200k yourself) Did you just pick up your Touareg recently?
Yes, I've bought it with 183k on the odo. I've gradually changed/renewed every maintenance item on it. Obviously didn't start with the transmission, especially that it was advertised as "sealed for life", and I didn't know better either until recently.
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post #12 of 46 Old 02-13-2019
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Hi Everyone!

I've been reading up on this topic extensively for days now, but unfortunately didn't find any definitive answers. I'm planning on getting my transmission, transfer case, and (non-locking) rear and front differential fluids changed on my '08 2.5 with the 09D auto transmission. The original OEM fluids for these are:

Transmission fluid: G 055 025 A2
Transfer case fluid: G 055 515 A2
Differential fluids: G 052 145 A2 (supposedly superseded by G 052 145 S2)

My understanding is that the following replacement fluids meet the appropriate specs:

G 055 025 A2 (transm.) - Mobil 1 ATF 3309, Liqui Moly Top Tec ATF 1200, Febi ATF 29934 (1L) / 101161 (5L)
G 055 515 A2 (transfc.) - Ravenol Transfer Fluid TF-0870
G 052 145 A2 (diffs) - essentially all high quality 75W-90 gear oils with API GL-4+ certification, like RAVENOL VSG SAE 75W-90, Liqui Moly 4433 - High Performance Gear Oil GL4+ SAE 75W-90, Febi 32590 - SAE 75W-90 GL-5

However, I did not find any definitive info on how people who decided to go with these non-OEM fluids fared with them.

So, my question is: Did you use any of the above mentioned (or any other) alternative fluids, and what were your mid- or long-term experiences with them? Is it safe to use them instead of the insanely expensive OEM fluids? I'm not looking for a direct comparison between OEM or non-OEM fluids (even though if you have any info, it's welcome), but whether non-OEM fluids caused any noteworthy problems for you.

My car has 125.000 miles / 200.000 kms, and afaik none of these fluids have ever been changed in it. It does not seem to show any symptoms that could be directly related to these components (like wheels do not skip, transmission does not slip, not even in sub-zero temps) and am planning to replace the fluids only as a preventive measure.

Any information welcome, and thanks!
I recommend using OEM fluids for Transfer case and diffs. As far as trans. I used Fuchs 4400. It's safe and was installed by the dealer since it was too cold at the time of the change. I am changing it again as it's been in for about 40K miles for Fuchs 4400 or Motul Multi-ATF. Now, I hate when people state: "I have had no issues" when describing using a specific oil. There is more to it than that. You want to find the oil that matches VW spec oils or just use OEM because in all reality they are very good and not made by VW anyway. Most likely they are made by one of the choices you see here.

That said, no issues Filter is clean, pan is clean and oil is very clean. Even before switching to Fuchs 4400. I will change mine in 2 weeks. No real way of saying there is an issue unless I get it tested. But I am not planning on that as I find it a waste of money. These oils conform to factory spec. Shifting and so forth has been perfect. I suggest changing every 30-40K miles for longlife. Mine has 131K miles on it. But all fluids changed around 100K

Since this is an Aisin trans, both fuchs 4400 and Motul cover the specs for the trans. I would not hesitate using it.

Rear diff I recommend OEM first but go ahead and use : 145 A2 (diffs) - essentially all high quality 75W-90 gear oils with API GL-4+ certification, like RAVENOL VSG SAE 75W-90, Liqui Moly 4433 - High Performance Gear Oil GL4+ SAE 75W-90, Febi 32590 - SAE 75W-90 GL-5

or Motul Gear 300 SL.
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post #13 of 46 Old 02-13-2019 Thread Starter
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.
Thanks for the insight alfissimo! One more thing: What was your mileage when you changed the fluids first?
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post #14 of 46 Old 02-13-2019
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Thanks for the insight alfissimo! One more thing: What was your mileage when you changed the fluids first?
First Transmission Fluid change at 88K miles. The diffs/transfer around 100K.

I will change trans again here soon at 132K+.
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post #15 of 46 Old 02-13-2019
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Almost 2 years ago now, I changed my front/rear diff fluids as well as my transfer box fluid. I did lots of research and ultimately used Royal Purple 75w90 gear oil for the diffs and OEM oil (part# G052145S2) for the transfer box. The Touareg had 125,000 km (~78,000 miles) on it at the time. Those fluids had not been changed before then.

I'm still driving the Touareg every day, and I've put 23,000 kms (~14,000 miles) on it since then. My mileage has been mostly city, but with a few long highway treks including towing a U-Haul 6x12 cargo trailer (packed to the brim) through the Rocky Mountains. I've also done a little bit of unskilled off-roading using 4-low and diff locks.

I've had no issues whatsoever with the diffs/transfer case since the fluid change (or before). I've also had my mechanic look at various driveline components thermally because I had a consistent "shhh" noise and there were no notable hot spots. The noise turned out to be a rotor backing plate that was contacting the backside of one of my brake rotors.

So I guess I would recommend the fluids that I went with - at least so far.

Hope this helps!
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post #16 of 46 Old 02-14-2019 Thread Starter
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Just an interesting side note I just accidentally stumble upon, but might be relevant to the "aftermarket vs oem oil" discussion:

https://www.fuchs.com/uk/en/company/...tum-oil-range/

According to this Fuchs (Germany) will be (well, in retrospect is, from 2017/2018 on), and supposedly has been also in the past, a "first fill provider to the factory" to VW, in the UK anyway. The previous oil company supplying lubricants to VW UK was Castrol.

Now, VW has no Touareg assembly line in the UK, so, in this regard this might be irrelevant per se, but the above fact still might give us a clue (if not a confirmation) on whether Castrol or Fuchs might have internal/insider knowledge of any possible special formulations used in VW lubricants, and could produce equivalent if not better "aftermarket" replacement products for them - provided, they're not selling the exact same product to VW anyway than to the general public.

Obviously this doesn't mean that any let's say Fuchs or Castrol 75W90 gear oil will be equivalent to the factory fill used in Touareg differentials, but I'm pretty confident that if Fuchs or Castrol claim on one of their product labels that it meets a particular VW spec that's supposedly used and required in that differential for fluid replacements, then in fact Fuchs and Castrol is most likely selling to you the very same product that VW would also sell to you as OEM, albeit at a very different price.

Just my to cents.
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Another possibly useful addition. The Porsche Cayenne (which has essentially the same transmission, axles and transfer case as the Touareg, albeit the exact part numbers slightly differing) official Technical Manual has a "Additional maintenance every 240,000 km/160,000 mls or every 16 years" chapter (which Touareg Technical Manuals don't have, as their maintenance schedule ends at 180,000 kms max), which lists - amongst a few others - the following tasks to be carried out at said mileage:

All-wheel final drive: replace oil Page 114 'Changing oil for all-wheel final drive'
Rear final drive: replace oil Page 104 'Changing oil for rear final drive'
Transfer box: replace oil Page 99 'Changing oil for transfer box'
Manual transmission: replace oil
Tiptronic transmission: change ATF Page 90 'Replacing ATF'
and ATF filter Page 107 'Removing and installing ATF filter'


So, I guess there we have our actual answer on the question when transmission/transfer box/differential fluid changes are due. This also means that up to 240.000 kms / 160.000 miles it should be pretty safe to open these boxes and replace their fluids without having to worry about the "too old to change" problem. Which, as already stated, and based on my extensive research in this topic, I believe to be more something people or even maybe mechanics tend to blame as a convenient culprit for when in reality they mess up the fluid change procedure and/or use the wrong fluid, and the transmission starts acting up afterwards, without that (ie. the fluid having been "too old" to change) actually being the real reason for the problems encountered.

But even if I'm totally wrong about this, and there's indeed a reasonable mileage/age after the trans fluid shouldn't be flushed, because of reasons, even then that critical mileage has to be obviously way beyond 240.000 kms / 160.000 miles, at least in the case of the Cayennes and Touaregs.
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post #18 of 46 Old 02-14-2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnits View Post
Just an interesting side note I just accidentally stumble upon, but might be relevant to the "aftermarket vs oem oil" discussion:

https://www.fuchs.com/uk/en/company/...tum-oil-range/

According to this Fuchs (Germany) will be (well, in retrospect is, from 2017/2018 on), and supposedly has been also in the past, a "first fill provider to the factory" to VW, in the UK anyway. The previous oil company supplying lubricants to VW UK was Castrol.

Now, VW has no Touareg assembly line in the UK, so, in this regard this might be irrelevant per se, but the above fact still might give us a clue (if not a confirmation) on whether Castrol or Fuchs might have internal/insider knowledge of any possible special formulations used in VW lubricants, and could produce equivalent if not better "aftermarket" replacement products for them - provided, they're not selling the exact same product to VW anyway than to the general public.

Obviously this doesn't mean that any let's say Fuchs or Castrol 75W90 gear oil will be equivalent to the factory fill used in Touareg differentials, but I'm pretty confident that if Fuchs or Castrol claim on one of their product labels that it meets a particular VW spec that's supposedly used and required in that differential for fluid replacements, then in fact Fuchs and Castrol is most likely selling to you the very same product that VW would also sell to you as OEM, albeit at a very different price.

Just my to cents.
I also only use FUCHS TITAN GT1 PRO C-3 SAE 5W-30 XTL Oil in my 3.0L TDI. CATA.
Fuchs 4400 in trans (may use Motul Multi-ATF)
OEM front, rear diff and transfer case.

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post #19 of 46 Old 02-14-2019
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Originally Posted by Gnits View Post
Another possibly useful addition. The Porsche Cayenne (which has essentially the same transmission, axles and transfer case as the Touareg, albeit the exact part numbers slightly differing) official Technical Manual has a "Additional maintenance every 240,000 km/160,000 mls or every 16 years" chapter (which Touareg Technical Manuals don't have, as their maintenance schedule ends at 180,000 kms max), which lists - amongst a few others - the following tasks to be carried out at said mileage:

All-wheel final drive: replace oil Page 114 'Changing oil for all-wheel final drive'
Rear final drive: replace oil Page 104 'Changing oil for rear final drive'
Transfer box: replace oil Page 99 'Changing oil for transfer box'
Manual transmission: replace oil
Tiptronic transmission: change ATF Page 90 'Replacing ATF'
and ATF filter Page 107 'Removing and installing ATF filter'
That is interesting indeed.
What is the highest milage Touareg around these forums? Does anyone keep\maintain theirs into the 200k+ range?
It seems that most users only seem to drive them into the 100k range before unloading them. As they are a premium vehicle, I intend to crack 200k before considering a change.

So back to fluids.... hurry up and change them and report back with results\experiences. I'd rather not stress about potentially needing to do mine at 75-80k if I can safely postpone it until 100-120k instead.
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post #20 of 46 Old 02-14-2019
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I don't plan on unloading mine for example. I will keep it for another 100K if possible. But this is a true statement above.

Most unload theirs around 5 yrs or 100K miles.

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