3.6L - To replace or rebuild? - Club Touareg Forums
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 Old 08-30-2017 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Touareg: 2007 V6
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: United States
Second Vehicle: 2007 V6
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Garage
3.6L - To replace or rebuild?

Hi Folks,

I'm trying to make a decision on the most time/cost effective move forward, and could use insight from someone who knows these engines. I just traded in my 2012 TDI for the buyback last week (missing her dearly). Prior to that I drove a friend's 2008 FSI and decided I would get a T1 or T2 after giving up the TDI. In searching I found a 2007 3.6L in excellent condition (for its age), but with a reported timing chain problem. That wasn't enough to scare me away because I got it for so cheap.

I also had just finished rebuilding the engine on my wife's Audi, so I was feeling in the mood for another rebuild. Prior to turning in the TDI, I had the pleasure of driving out and towing her replacement home 700 miles...great times! Back home and on the scanner - it cranks but won't start, and is throwing no codes or CEL. The timing chain diagnosis appears to be correct.

My friend told me that starting in 2008, the timing chain issues (stretched chain, tensioner and bolt problems) were solved on the T2 3.6's, but I have yet to confirm. If this is the case, I might consider option A of tracking down an 08 or 09 motor for quick swap if possible.

Otherwise, I'll resort to option B, pulling in the crane and start tearing it down. If the issues are the same across the board, I wouldn't install anything else without installing new timing components anyway.

Any insight or input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks guys/gals.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Tregs.JPG
Views:	307
Size:	150.1 KB
ID:	190281  
ttaylor05 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 Old 08-30-2017
Touareg Guru
 
Touareg: 2006 V8
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wytheville VA USA
Second Vehicle: 2004 V6
Posts: 3,367
Thanks: 155
Thanked 318 Times in 278 Posts
Garage
Your friend must be referring to the infamous oil pump bolt failure of the 2006 and 2007 VR6 engines.

3.6 Oil Bolt Failure: Reference Material

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	OIL_PUMP_BOLT_2.jpg
Views:	7991
Size:	273.3 KB
ID:	190329  
nickyt is offline  
post #3 of 11 Old 08-30-2017
Touareg Enthusiast
 
Touareg: 2016 V6 TDI
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Interior Alaska
Second Vehicle: Other
Posts: 230
Thanks: 20
Thanked 21 Times in 19 Posts
Ah yes! Leave it to VW to make a swap from timing belts to timing chains and end up with a set-up that is less reliable.

My understanding on the 3.6 VR6 was that the oil pump bolt breaking/backing out was the cause of the timing issues. To the best of my knowledge, the timing chains/guides/tensioners are not really any different on later models, but I'm not all that current on them. I do know that the guides that wear and are usually for the upper chain, which does not require the engine to come out.

In your case, you will definitely want to check the oil pump bolt, which is an engine or transmission-out proposition. If that is causing the problem, I'd probably swap to a newer engine, as I understand that pump may not have been spinning as fast as it should have been and it sometimes leads to spun bearings and the like.

If you are swapping in a newer engine, I'd have a tough time not doing a complete timing chain/tensioner/guide replacement. The failures are common enough, and the labor to fix it is significant enough that it strikes me as a reasonable insurance policy.
buckwheat is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 11 Old 08-30-2017
Touareg Guru
 
noobytoogy's Avatar
 
Touareg: Still looking
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brexit Central, England
Second Vehicle: is not a VW
Posts: 20,280
Thanks: 0
Thanked 569 Times in 496 Posts
The timing chain problem was on the earlier 3.2 V6 that the 3.6 replaced.

The chain maker carried on using worn stamps when making the chain parts resulting in some chains stretching prematurely. Replacing the tensioner helped in some cases but not all and since the engine was originally designed for east to west installation but is installed south to north in the Touareg, the timing chain is highly inaccessible at the back of the engine thus requiring it to be removed for the chain to be replaced unless you can find a female mechanic with tiny hands.

VW Touareg models are as follows:
Generation 1: T1 is model 7LA & facelift T2 is model 7L6
Generation 2: T3 is model 7P5 & facelift T4 is model 7P6
Generation 3: T5 is model CR7 [Not available in "VW Atlas" North America!]
Read Wikipedia:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

T1 & T2 buyers MUST read:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Use Google or Bing to search by typing in: site:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
followed by what you seek
noobytoogy is offline  
post #5 of 11 Old 08-30-2017
Touareg Guru
 
Touareg: 2006 V8
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wytheville VA USA
Second Vehicle: 2004 V6
Posts: 3,367
Thanks: 155
Thanked 318 Times in 278 Posts
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckwheat
Ah yes! Leave it to VW to make a swap from timing belts to timing chains and end up with a set-up that is less reliable.
That is the VW that we have come to know over these last few years.

Since the OP seems to have no trouble pulling an engine, I would pull this one, remove the rear covers, and see what shape the timing components are in. If it looks salvageable, then compression test the engine. If everything passes, then I would just rebuild it.

At this point, it is a 50/50, but it will save a lot of money to not replace the engine. If the engine has to be scrapped, all that will be lost is the time to inspect it. The engine had to come out either way.

As far as the newer engines being better; the only real difference I have found is that a stronger oil pump bolt was installed at the factory.

Note to self. Put in the stronger oil pump bolt when rebuilding engine.
nickyt is offline  
post #6 of 11 Old 08-30-2017
Touareg Guru
 
Touareg: 2006 V8
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wytheville VA USA
Second Vehicle: 2004 V6
Posts: 3,367
Thanks: 155
Thanked 318 Times in 278 Posts
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by noobytoogy View Post
The timing chain problem was on the earlier 3.2 V6 that the 3.6 replaced.
Always fun in the garage with a VW engine.

I just remembered this thread. 2007 3.6 Vr6 sludge rebuild. 82k miles.

Perhaps the OP can get a second opinion about a rebuild from PanzerPerformance. I would say that he is the most knowledgeable person on this forum when it comes to taking a VR6 apart and putting it back together.
nickyt is offline  
post #7 of 11 Old 08-30-2017
Touareg Enthusiast
 
Touareg: 2016 V6 TDI
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Interior Alaska
Second Vehicle: Other
Posts: 230
Thanks: 20
Thanked 21 Times in 19 Posts
Timing chain issues go back even before the 3.2L. I had one of the first 2.8L VR6s made in a 1992 Corrado and found myself replace timing chain guides at 100,000 miles.
buckwheat is offline  
post #8 of 11 Old 08-31-2017 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Touareg: 2007 V6
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: United States
Second Vehicle: 2007 V6
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Garage
Thank you guys for the insight - helped a lot and is much appreciated!!

I'm going to start with pulling the engine and opening her up to see if there is visible damage to any timing components. Hopefully I'll find a bad tensioner, bolt, etc. If it passes a compression test I'll install all new timing components, set it and should be good to go.

If lack of compression points to deeper issues, I'll buy a replacement and swap in new timing components (and bolt) before install. In that case I'd probably keep the core and rebuilt it in spare time when I want to get my hands dirty.

For the record it has 133k on the clock. Previous owner drove it for 6 years since it had 60k on it with no issues. He didn't do any timing work so its all original. Will start working on it next week and report back with the findings.

Thanks!
ttaylor05 is offline  
post #9 of 11 Old 08-31-2017
Junior Member
 
77 K20's Avatar
 
Touareg: 2007 V6
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Montana
Second Vehicle: Still looking
Posts: 78
Thanks: 11
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Garage
I thought that oil pump bolt was just an issue on the Passat engines.

I take it that is not the case?

2007 Touareg V6
2014 Passat 5 speed manual
2003 Silverado 8.1L 6 speed manual
1977 Chevy K20 off road
77 K20 is offline  
post #10 of 11 Old 09-01-2017
Touareg Guru
 
Touareg: 2006 V8
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wytheville VA USA
Second Vehicle: 2004 V6
Posts: 3,367
Thanks: 155
Thanked 318 Times in 278 Posts
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 77 K20 View Post
I thought that oil pump bolt was just an issue on the Passat engines.

I take it that is not the case?
It involved the 2006 and 2007 3.6 VR6 engines. Models affected are any VW or Audi that had that engine installed. Wrong Bolt put in at factory. The fix was to replace the weak bolt with a much stronger bolt.
nickyt is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Club Touareg Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in













Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
 

VW Touareg News Delivered to your Email!

Stay up-to-date with Touareg news in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]