05 V8 Timing Service Questions - Club Touareg Forums
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 9 Old 03-22-2017 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Touareg: 2005 V8
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: MA, USA
Second Vehicle: Other
Posts: 24
Thanks: 2
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Garage
05 V8 Timing Service Questions

Hello all,

I'm preforming a timing belt service on my touareg and I am unsure on the cam shaft positioning. According to ElsaWin there are 16 chain rollers between the alignment marks on the cam shafts with bank 1 both being offset a 1/2 tooth offset to left. Positioning the cam and chains in this manner, the intake cam in bank 1 is ~1/2 a tooth off from the alignment mark on the bearing cap (bearing cap mark is 15.5 teeth from the exhaust cam) and on bank 2 the intake cam is 1 tooth off from the alignment mark on the bearing cap (bearing cap mark is 15 teeth from the exhaust cam). What should I do? Should I keep the 16 teeth or adjust the chains 1 tooth to get the cam shafts to align with the bearing caps? Could the chain have stretched that much?

I will work on uploading pictures for a visual. I've done multiple timing services on Audi v6's and have never had an issue with the 16 teeth and the alignment marks aligning according to ElsaWin.

'05 Touareg V8, Colorado Red on Anthracite with Package 4
'01.5 S4 K04+ on meth
kenrevo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 Old 03-23-2017 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Touareg: 2005 V8
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: MA, USA
Second Vehicle: Other
Posts: 24
Thanks: 2
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Garage
Below are the pictures, the counting looks slightly off in the pictures because of the angles but the counting and marks are accurate. I also forgot to mention I have the crankshaft pin in and the cam locking bar on.
Bank 1:


Bank 2:

'05 Touareg V8, Colorado Red on Anthracite with Package 4
'01.5 S4 K04+ on meth
kenrevo is offline  
post #3 of 9 Old 03-24-2017 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Touareg: 2005 V8
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: MA, USA
Second Vehicle: Other
Posts: 24
Thanks: 2
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Garage
Just to update encase other people have this issue. I tried it as is (16 rollers) and got a rough idle and 2 codes:
16730/P0346 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G163): Implausible Signal
17748/P1340 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G2: Incor. Correlation

So I adjusted both sides to 15 rollers and it works perfectly. On bank 1 the intake cam is a ~1/3 tooth from the alignment mark on the bearing cap to the exhaust cam side. Bank 2 lines up perfectly with the marks on the bearing cap with 15 rollers. Block 93 was -3.0kw and -2.0kw and no error codes.

'05 Touareg V8, Colorado Red on Anthracite with Package 4
'01.5 S4 K04+ on meth
kenrevo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 9 Old 12-15-2018
Junior Member
 
woody525's Avatar
 
Touareg: 2005 V8
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Second Vehicle: is jealous
Posts: 76
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Very helpful!

Thanks you, very helpful! I am currently battling the 16 vs. 15 roller dilemma and this was just what i needed. 15 rollers it is!
woody525 is offline  
post #5 of 9 Old 12-15-2018
Touareg Enthusiast
 
Touareg: 2015 V6 TDI
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Vancouver BC
Second Vehicle: too many to list
Posts: 398
Thanks: 3
Thanked 34 Times in 26 Posts
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody525 View Post
Thanks you, very helpful! I am currently battling the 16 vs. 15 roller dilemma and this was just what i needed. 15 rollers it is!
Please DO NOT listen to the above posts, he has set his timing incorrectly. The 16 chain rollers is ONLY for setting the intake to exhaust cam timing, NOT exhaust to crank timing!!!

The camshaft sprockets are free-wheeling, they are not keyed to the camshaft. During timing belt service, you are supposed to lock the crankshaft in position using a special tool, loosen the camshaft sprocket bolts, secure the camshafts with a special tool, then install and tension the belt. The camshafts will remain set at TDC while the sprockets will rotate slightly as they are tensioned.

During a normal timing belt replacement, you should not need to worry about the camshaft chain at all.

'81 Rabbit S 16vG60 | '01 A6 2.7TT 6MT | '15 Touareg TDI Exec R-line

- OEM air suspension retrofit
- OEM parking heater retrofit
- OEM Easy-Open hatch retrofit
- OEM ambient lighting retrofit
chewblekka is offline  
post #6 of 9 Old 12-15-2018
Junior Member
 
woody525's Avatar
 
Touareg: 2005 V8
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Second Vehicle: is jealous
Posts: 76
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0682.jpg
Views:	67
Size:	461.7 KB
ID:	219819

I had the cams out to change the valve cover gasket and related seals. I do have the crank locked and the bar that keeps the cylinder heads at TDC. I did neglect to mark where the sprockets has been on the chain, and when I tried to re-time them using the 16-roller guidance, the intake cam would consistently be a full tooth retarded when the exhaust cam was at TDC. With 15 rollers the timing marks on the cams line up perfectly with the timing marks on the cam bearings (looks skewed in picture due to parallax, they line up perfectly when looking at each straight on). What Iím seeing seems to match up perfectly with the above write-up.

Iíll certainly update if I have any trouble when I fire her up in a few days. Thank you for the warning, but Iím feeling confident that OP was right in the end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
woody525 is offline  
post #7 of 9 Old 04-05-2019
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I can lend some clarity to this and hopefully save some of you from the aggrevation of repeatedly re-timing that i went thru with this job


Let me begin with some clarification on the cylinder numbers and bank 1 and bank 2...

Bank 1 (cylinders 1-4) is the Passenger side and cylinder 1 is closest to the radiator

Bank 2 (cylinders 5- is the Driver's side and cylinder 5 is closest to the radiator


When you lock your crank with the balancer timing marks aligned to the timing belt cover cylinder 5 is at TDC, Not cylinder 1, this is important because the hydraulic cam tensioners are different part numbers for the different banks they function differently and it's very common for techs, not to mention shade tree guys like us, to put them on the wrong sides which will cause you to throw the 17748 and 17755 vag code for incorrect cam/crank correlation.

When counting rollers between the timing marks the number is 16 rollers for both sides, the confusion comes from where to start and stop counting because the rollers and the marks don't line up perfectly...


The cam locking bar will always force your exhaust cam timing marks to be perfectly aligned with their cam caps so always start your roller count with your exhaust cams on the bench from the 1st roller to the Left of the exhaust cam for both banks.


For bank 1 (passenger side) starting 1st roller to the left of the exhaust timing mark count your 16th roller should also be just to the left once you re-install this side i have always found the timing marks to line up perfectly with the cam caps after the tensioner is released.

For bank 2 (passenger side) starting 1st roller to the left of the exhaust timing mark count your 16th roller which will land almost perfectly with the timing mark on the intake cam...if you count the rollers inside the marks instead you will come up with 15 between the marks which is where the confusion comes from. Once you re-install this side the intake timing mark on the cam will be a little advanced(closer)to the exhaust cam, the pic in the previous post shows this pretty well.


After you've re-installed i'd recommend leaving cam caps tight but don't torque and stretch the bolts until you've run the motor, also let the motor sit for 30 minutes or more before turning over one or more crank revolutions by hand clockwise, after you line up the balancer marks with the cover and re-locked with the cam bar both intake cam marks should line up, passenger side always looks perfect to me driver's always seems a little past the cam cap mark if either intake cam mark isn't real close chances are the chain timing is wrong.


After you run the motor and it doesn't throw any correlation or cam codes take the valve covers back off and torque and stretch the cam cap bolts, also don't re-use cam bolts they are stretch bolts there are 26 per side 52 total the VW p/n is 077 103 460 they're about a $1.40 each
Lysholm is offline  
post #8 of 9 Old 04-06-2019
Touareg Guru
 
noobytoogy's Avatar
 
Touareg: Still looking
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brexit Central, England
Second Vehicle: is not a VW
Posts: 20,164
Thanks: 0
Thanked 558 Times in 485 Posts
Just to be pedantic and to remove any possibilty of confusion for others doing this job later, when you mention driver and passenger sides you are talking about these on a left hand drive car?

VW Touareg models are as follows:
Generation 1: T1 is model 7LA & facelift T2 is model 7L6
Generation 2: T3 is model 7P5 & facelift T4 is model 7P6
Generation 3: T5 is model CR7 [Not available in "VW Atlas" North America!]
Read Wikipedia:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

T1 & T2 buyers MUST read:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Use Google or Bing to search by typing in: site:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
followed by what you seek
noobytoogy is offline  
post #9 of 9 Old 04-06-2019
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by noobytoogy View Post
Just to be pedantic and to remove any possibilty of confusion for others doing this job later, when you mention driver and passenger sides you are talking about these on a left hand drive car?

Yes LHD is my frame of reference...but to remove all doubt with the engine running I recommend you pull electrical connector on injector one and you get an open to ground fault code for that injector which is N80
Lysholm is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Club Touareg Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
 

VW Touareg News Delivered to your Email!

Stay up-to-date with Touareg news in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]