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post #1 of 10 Old 12-19-2017 Thread Starter
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V10 Poor/Rough Idle

Greetings all, my 2006 Touareg V10 has developed a few new problems in the past few months, any in-site or previous experience would be appreciated.

1. Idle issue:
For about 2 weeks the engine has been having trouble maintaining a smooth idle, before this its always been really good and it seems to do worse after the engine warms up. It never has any trouble starting and acceleration seems normal as well. Normal idle appears to be around 600RPM and now its constantly diving to 500 and then catching itself and bringing it back up to 600. When it catches itself it causes the whole vehicle to shake, you can hear it and feel it. I have posted a YouTube video to help explain.

2. Odd vibration/studder at low RPM cruising:
This issue has been going on longer than the idle issue but may be related (which is the only reason I bring it up). When driving around town around 35MPH (5th gear) or 45MPH (6th gear) I sometimes notice a kind of stuttering feeling in which I thought was coming from the drive train or tires but now it feels more like a miss (if this were a gas engine) and is happening more frequently. It only happens if I have previously accelerated hard and then let up once I got to speed and only if that speed results in a very low engine RPM (1100-1200). If I manually change down a gear, the feeling always goes back to normal. There is never any hesitation when I go to accelerate though, the power is always there.

3. Oil smell and smoke during regen:
For about the last 3 or so regens I have noticed the smell of burning oil, this is new and previously I would only notice that a regen had happened due to the white smoke out the exhaust or if I got out I could sometimes tell that something smelled hot, but I had not smelled hot oil until recently. On the last regen I could see smoke coming out of the area around the passenger side headlight.
I have done a lot of reading about this and my assumption is that the gasket around the tandem pump on that side is failing. But I appreciate any thoughts on the matter.

4. Exhaust leak (I've already posted about this before)
I have an exhaust leak most likely coming from the exhaust manifold(s) or an EGR tube. This issue has existed since purchasing the vehicle about a year ago but I bring it up in-case it relates to the other issue. It is not a very bad leak (smell wise) but it was hard to justify dropping the engine unless another issue arouse and also needed fixing (which may now be the case).

I plan on getting a diagnostic at the dealer, and I trust the Master Diesel Mechanic there, he has done some good work on the Touareg already. But I value any input you may have so very much. I know it seems crazy to spend so much on some of these repairs, but my wife and I really like the V10 and if possible would like to keep it in good repair and hang onto it for as long as we can. Thanks again for your time in reading all of this, I'll post any updates that I get on my end. Also, I have posted below the results of a VCDS scan I just ran today (I deleted all the sections with no faults to keep this post from being even longer).

Tuesday,19,December,2017,12:35:05:64270
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 17.8.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20171130 DS276.6
Ross-Tech: Home

Chassis Type: 7L (7L - VW Touareg (2003 > 11/2006))
Scan: 01 02 03 05 06 08 09 11 13 15 16 17 18 19 1C 22 29 32 34 36
37 39 3C 46 47 55 56 57 64 65 68 69 6C 6D 6E 75 76 77

VIN: WVGPT77L56D063607 Mileage: 174700km-108553miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: None
Part No SW: 7L0 909 137 A HW: 5WK 485 02
Component: 29 Kessy 6700
Revision: 67005915 Serial number: VWZ3Z0F6459583
Coding: 0147688
Shop #: WSC 31414 000 00000
VCID: 31689A3FABD254CE2E-5140

Subsystem 1 - Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX
Component: ELV XXXX

3 Faults Found:
00191 - Passenger's Door Handle Touch Sensor (G416)
007 - Short to Ground
00955 - Key 1
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded
00180 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna; Passenger Side (R135)
001 - Upper Limit Exceeded

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: None
Part No: 7L6 907 044 T
Component: CLIMAtronic 2+2 4222
Coding: 0020030
Shop #: WSC 50423 001 1048576
VCID: 4580DEEF0F5AE86EE2-515E

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 7L6 907 049 E
Component: CLIMAtronic FOND 0400

4 Faults Found:
02379 - Positioning Motor for Left Side Vent (V299)
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation
02380 - Positioning Motor for Right Side Vent (V300)
000 - -
00714 - Centre Right Vent Positioning Motor (V111)
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation
00710 - Defroster Flap Positioning Motor (V107)
000 - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels:. 7Lx-937-049-V1.clb
Part No: 7L6 937 049 N
Component: 3002
Coding: 0111839
Shop #: WSC 31414 000 00000
VCID: 479CD4E73556FA7E10-5140

1 Fault Found:
00907 - Intervention load Management
000 - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 11: Engine II Labels: Redir Fail!
Part No SW: 070 906 016 CQ HW: 028 101 196 2
Component: V10 5,0L EDCG001AGS9805
Revision: --H02--- Serial number: VWZ3Z0F6459583
Coding: 0060575
Shop #: WSC 50423 001 1048576
VCID: 61C82A7FBBB2A44EFE-515E

2 Faults Found:
012374 - Exhaust Pressure Sensor 2 (G451)
P3056 - 000 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00110000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 174449 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 630 /min
Speed: 0.0 km/h
(no units): -22.95
Raw, Form. N/A: 000 000 128
Temperature: 6.0C
Temperature: -11.7C

012298 - Diesel Particle Filter; Differential Pressure Sensor; Bank 2
P300A - 000 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00110000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 174453 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Speed: 0.0 km/h
(no units): 0.00
Raw, Form. N/A: 000 000 128
Temperature: 414.0C
Temperature: -10.8C


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 3D0-909-601.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 601 H
Component: 05 Airbag 8.4E++H01 0562
Revision: BB38727 Serial number: 0007814:
Coding: 0012341
Shop #: WSC 31414 000 00000
VCID: 285E775B98081506F9-515E

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 7L0 959 339 C
Component: BF-Gewichtsens. 006 0008

1 Fault Found:
01316 - ABS Control Module
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Reset counter: 255
Time Indication: 0


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 18: Aux. Heat Labels: 7L6-819-008.lbl
Part No: 7L6 815 071 D
Component: Standheizung E1MAC
Coding: 0000100
Shop #: WSC 31414 000 00000
VCID: 3364903751CE66DE5C-515E

1 Fault Found:
01126 - Engine Speed Signal
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 08:06)--------------------------

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post #2 of 10 Old 12-20-2017
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Get rid of the 2 codes for the exhaust in the 2nd ECU (Engine11) if they are only new ??






I would check fuel filters if condition not known then possibly a failed LH or RH fuel pump on the back heads.






regards
Drag
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post #3 of 10 Old 12-20-2017
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Ive had rough idle too at times, restart most times fixes it.
How can the fuel pumps be tested Drag?

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post #4 of 10 Old 12-20-2017 Thread Starter
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Thanks Dragline, you have contributed a lot to many of the posts I have read, I wish I had your skills

I forgot to mention that I had an oil change done at the dealer about 2 weeks ago. This problem was just starting to show up and I did ask them to check the fuel filter for water, but I don't think that involves actually opening it up. The filter was replaced about 9 months ago with the previous oil change.

Also, when I started it up this morning the check engine light was on so I pulled the codes. This is whats new, could it be related? It has never appeared before.
1 Fault Found:
000387 - Fuel Temp. Sensor A (G81)
P0183 - 000 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 3
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 174705 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 693 /min
Speed: 35.7 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 13.15 V
Temperature: 0.0C
Temperature: 61.2C
Temperature: 14.4C

Readiness: 1 1 0 0 0

2006 Touareg V10, Campanella White/Pure Beige
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post #5 of 10 Old 12-20-2017
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My V10 is practically a sister to yours (062013). Our V10s have the single fuel filter on the drivers side. It can vacuumed thru the little tube in the center of the lid. I actually bought the vag tool for this but have never found any water in the filter. That said it would be very easy to suction that port.

I had the G451 fault once at about 100K chugging along 4 WD roads above Crested Butte. Never came back although I fear trying to change those (G450 and G451). The G81 looks suspicious but it is intermittent. The Ross-tech mantra is always to erase intermittents and see if they come back.

Your Intervention Load Management also bears looking at even though these cars will trigger that in a heartbeat. How old are your batteries?. I like to log starting voltage drop on both batteries in 09. If you see anything below about 9.5 volts it will give that code and may be an early warning.

I also like reach down behind the Tandem pump, feeling for the dreaded leak which has caused many an unnecessary turbo replacement and possibly your headlight smoke.
My latest worry is a cold start deep
throb with no variation in idle, unlike yours. Ive always run the dealer oil or the Mobil ESP M oil but now ESP cannot be 40W, so thats a worry for the cams.
Seems to emanate from the middle of the V, so naturally I worry about camshafts. Not sure what those symtoms will be.
Let us know what your master mechanic finds.
PS: I guess those smells are the usual exhaust manifold cracks.

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post #6 of 10 Old 12-20-2017 Thread Starter
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Thanks lgibson, I enjoy getting to know other v10 owners (all VW owners really)!

Those two intermittent exhaust codes come back after a few thousand miles, I have cleared them before. I took it on a longer drive today and definitely felt it doing the same thing it does during idle, but while moving down the highway. I'm looking into further diagnostics, I just thought I'd post it (and search) here first in hopes of someone saying "hey this happened to me and here's what I did to fix it" but it must not be a common issue.

I replaced the front battery during my previous oil change at about 98xxx miles along with the fuel filter, rear brakes, and all diff/trans fluid so the rear battery could be due. We had a cold morning when it was about 8*F and I saw it kill the hvac and radio during startup and knew that code would be in there. At my more recent oil change, I also had them check the fuel filter for water and change out the air filters.

I worry about camshafts too, I wish I knew what our V10s sounded like new. I hear sounds and don't know if the're normal or not but the only other V10s I have driven were higher mileage than mine and made the same sounds and had the same exhaust leaks. I need to look into symptoms of camshaft wear just to ease my mind. The guy who owned it before me dealer maintained it maliciously and my dealer was impressed with how little wear it shows (inside and out) so I hope I'm okay on the oil front.

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post #7 of 10 Old 12-27-2017 Thread Starter
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Well the Diesel Mechanic at my dealer thinks replacing the Fuel Temp. Sensor A (G81) will fix the issue with the rough running and he also thinks he can deal with it and the oil leak without pulling the engine (he really does not want to pull it). This is good news and bad. Save a lot of $$$ by not pulling the engine, but still have to deal with leaky exhaust.

In regards to the exhaust leak, he (and myself) have not been able to determine if it is from a cracked EGR tube or a cracked manifold. He can do the EGR tubes with the engine in, but no guarantee that it fixes the leak. Anyone have any tricks for pinning down where the leak is? If I can, I'd like to fix all of this in one shot, just have to decide which route to go.

Thanks for all of your input.

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post #8 of 10 Old 12-27-2017
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Ask your mechanic to smoke test the exh system. Essentially they apply smoke under pressure into tail pipe. Look for smoke from leaks. Done smoke machines also use a UV dye in their smoke Liquid to aide tracking down leaks with a UV light.

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post #9 of 10 Old 02-10-2018 Thread Starter
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Fixed!

I finally got my Touareg back from the dealership so I thought I'd post the result. They had it for well over a month due to a backordered part, but they were nice enough to let me use one of their courtesy cars for the full duration. I live an hour away and trying to get a ride is difficult.

The mechanic theorized that the leaky tandem pump was sucking in air causing the engine to run poorly. He replaced the right side tandem pump and the fuel temp sensor. I am not sure if the sensor was actually bad or just not sure what to do with air pockets in the fuel.

Anyway, I did not see any other posts with a similar issue so there you have it. Leaky tandem pump can cause issues creating "roughness" in the way the engine is running. I think its been happening for a long time, but just started to get bad enough for me to start investigating.

Thanks for all the help and advice!

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post #10 of 10 Old 06-06-2018 Thread Starter
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Update - Was not Tandem Pump

Greetings all,

I just wanted to update the thread in case anyone else has a similar problem. I had previously thought that replacing the tandem pump had fixed my rough running issue since the problem went away for a few months. But I was wrong, once we started having warm weather the rough running returned and so did the "000387 - Fuel Temp. Sensor A (G81) P0183 - 000 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent" code.

My mechanic did some diagnostics and discovered that the reading from this sensor (that was replaced only months ago) was all over the place and was causing "fuel cut" every time it went into the extreme negatives. So finally, this all makes sense. If the computer thinks the fuel is too cold, it cuts it which would normally stop the engine but since the next reading would be ok it would catch itself before it stopped. This could also be felt driving down the road, but was less pronounced due to momentum. The problem was found in an exposed wire causing a sort. The official fix is apparently to drop the engine and replace part of the harness but he was able to run new wire from G81 to the computer without dropping.

So after all, it also had nothing to due with the leaking tandem pump but I'm still glad I got it replaced because it did fix the oil leak.

2006 Touareg V10, Campanella White/Pure Beige
2013 Golf TDI, 6MT
1980 Kawasaki KZ750
2004 V6 Touareg, Colorado Red/Kristal Gray (sold)
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