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V10 Limp Mode - Did rebuild of turbo actuator fix your problem?

36K views 69 replies 24 participants last post by  Flash635 
#1 ·
Hi All

I have a 2004 V10 Touareg which has intermittent turbo failure, resulting in the car going into limp mode. It's seems everyone with a V10 has the pleasure of this problem!

The current scans show:

ENGINE ELECTRONICS
1 fault present
16562 ( P0178 ) Fuel composition sensor circuit
LOW

ENGINE ELECTRONICS 2
1 fault present
18361 ( P1953 ) Turbocharger ECU 2
DEFECTIVE


The previous scans on many occasions show:

Number: P195300 (P1953): Turbocharger (TC) control module 2 Faulty
Error Type 1: TBD
Error Type 2: Intermittent

What is the diff between the ECU fault and the control module fault?

The limp mode happens more frequently when the car in under load, or going uphill, but can happen anywhere. It is becoming more and more frequent. It will either not go above 80km/hr with my foot on the floor, or goes into full blown limp mode and won't go over 20km/hr. If I turn the engine off, and restart the car, the problem is fixed. I get no warning lights on the dash.

Recent work to the car include (due to other issues):

Car injection flush
Clean quantity control valve
2 new batteries
Clean of wiring and connectors (I think under front seat)
New vacuum pump (due to oil leak)
2 new fuel sender units

In the past I have had the turbo looked at. They disconnected the rods to find that they move freely. The actuator was found to be stiff, binding and noisy. The linkages were lubricated, with little improvement in performance.

Before contemplating removing the engine, I am thinking about getting the actuator rebuilt by these people ECU Testing in the UK:

VW Touareg TDI Turbo Actuator Fault

Has anyone had this rebuild done and solved their limp mode???

What other things should be looked at other than the C-clip and the actuator pin?

Thanks :)
 
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#2 ·
I too would like some information on this. 4000 miles after my extensive rebuild, I am getting the 18360 code, that has now progressed to the point where I can't really drive it much due to it being in limp mode all the time.... Blownvette was right, I should have stuck with the stock turbos I guess and not gone with the bigger ones. Oh well, live and learn I suppose.
 
#3 ·
Look on Google or Youtube on how to decarbonise a VNT turbo.
You just spray Mr Muscle in, let it soak a bit and work the mechanism until it's free.
Mr Muscle is the same as the "proper" stuff but is better because it foams.

Another thing to check is the turbo seal. Your intercooler could be full of oil.
 
#5 ·
The actuators fail because the vanes are carboned and stick.

If you rebuild the actuators the new ones will also fail if you don't unstick the VGT vanes.
 
#7 ·
I don't understand the question.

Overtime the VGT vanes carbon up making the actuator motors work too hard and eventually strip/fail/burn.

So if you fit a new actuator mechanism but you don't clean the sticky VGT vanes the new actuator will also fail.
 
#14 ·
Had similar issues on my V10 but it all started with dealer messing the wiring in the plenum and breaking ECU mounting brackets when changing front air-springs.

So initial problem was turbo on ECU 2 (left hand side) cutting out unexpectedly. After much trial-and-error and fixing ECUs with RTV silicon (while waiting for mounting brackets to arrive), I concluded the fualt is electric. This nearly solved the problem, except when going over exceptionally large obstacle (mostly off-roading) AND breaking at the same time, the fault would return.

In the meantime, due to a lot of oil leaking out of the non-functional turbo, I felt the turbo seals were getting weaker; they might as well be very weak by now because I still get a fair amount of oil in my intake hoses. This led to another problem: occasionally sticking VNTs.
To check: 1) if not too stuck, turbo is less problematic when engine gets hot. 2) again if not badly stuck and flooring of the pedal causes turbo to stop functioning, it'll resolve itself when you release the pedal. 3) From VCDS (I use the Lite version), go to specific engine control module (address 1 or 11) and do an Output Test. this will first test your EGR and then your turbo actuators. In my case, I'll hear the right side one working fine, but the left side one getting stuck when the engine was cold (whirring sound coming from behind the left front wheel).
Solution. For sticky VNTs, as I could find no way of getting any sort of oven-cleaner inside my exhaust pipes, I poured half a litre of Liqui Moly Diesel Purge on 1/4th tank (25l) and drove down a highway stopping and hard-accelerating as often as I could for about 40 km. The very first hard acceleration (make sure by this time not only your coolant temperature but also your enigne oil temperature is near it's operating temperature of 90 deg.) I noticed a cloud of thick black smoke; on the second, very little smoke, and by the third all smoke had cleared out. On the way back I drove in third gear at near max rpm until I was about to run out of fuel. This really did it for my sticky VNTs. I also have the actuators greased (white lithium grease--the same sort used on brake calipers) every time I go off-roading or after driving through heavy rains. From the actuator "output test" I still feel the left side actuator sounds more "clangy" while the right side one is very smooth. If I drive in the city for too long, I occassionally still put a can of Diesel Purge (half litre on 3/4ths tank) when going on highway and give it a few good blasts: sometimes there is a puff of black smoke (but nothing like the massive cloud the first time). This has been keeping my VNTs healthy (sort of).

As for the original problem of the actuator cutting out, after fixing the plastic ECU mounts, the problem occassionally returns. I've had the connectors taken off, thoroughly cleaned, inspected both the terminals and the wires, and though all *looks* good, pressing the cable going to the second ECU down so it does not pull on the connector helps. Every time I have the actuator cutting out, I re-seat the cable where I think it won't snag at the connector plugs and it solves the problem for a few weeks (or months, depending how bumpy the roads are). I still don't know what it is about electricity cutting out from the ECU or electric connectors to the turbo actuator but practically this helps.

So indeed Mr Muscle/ Diesel Purge-and-heavy-acceleration for your VNTs, and for the actuator, though sometimes there is no other solution than replacing them, at least in my case, trial-and-error (and a lot of patience) to detect cause--in my case, not entirely sure *what* is causing it but it certainly has to do with the cable supplying the ECU2--if it snags on the connector plug (I still only assume), the turbo actuator cuts out.

Best luck

PS here's a thread I started as it developed http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/search.php?searchid=13288417
 
#18 ·
Imuhagh
Can you give some specifics of how you are performing these output tests on each turbo controller?

I would like to try this diesel purge method you outline here.

I have had both controllers off and "rebuilt", and while it improved turbo response it is still not fixed. I'm otherwise preparing to drop the front end far enough to reach the turbos.

Thanks
Had similar issues on my V10 but it all started with dealer messing the wiring in the plenum and breaking ECU mounting brackets when changing front air-springs.

So initial problem was turbo on ECU 2 (left hand side) cutting out unexpectedly. After much trial-and-error and fixing ECUs with RTV silicon (while waiting for mounting brackets to arrive), I concluded the fualt is electric. This nearly solved the problem, except when going over exceptionally large obstacle (mostly off-roading) AND breaking at the same time, the fault would return.

In the meantime, due to a lot of oil leaking out of the non-functional turbo, I felt the turbo seals were getting weaker; they might as well be very weak by now because I still get a fair amount of oil in my intake hoses. This led to another problem: occasionally sticking VNTs.
To check: 1) if not too stuck, turbo is less problematic when engine gets hot. 2) again if not badly stuck and flooring of the pedal causes turbo to stop functioning, it'll resolve itself when you release the pedal. 3) From VCDS (I use the Lite version), go to specific engine control module (address 1 or 11) and do an Output Test. this will first test your EGR and then your turbo actuators. In my case, I'll hear the right side one working fine, but the left side one getting stuck when the engine was cold (whirring sound coming from behind the left front wheel).
Solution. For sticky VNTs, as I could find no way of getting any sort of oven-cleaner inside my exhaust pipes, I poured half a litre of Liqui Moly Diesel Purge on 1/4th tank (25l) and drove down a highway stopping and hard-accelerating as often as I could for about 40 km. The very first hard acceleration (make sure by this time not only your coolant temperature but also your enigne oil temperature is near it's operating temperature of 90 deg.) I noticed a cloud of thick black smoke; on the second, very little smoke, and by the third all smoke had cleared out. On the way back I drove in third gear at near max rpm until I was about to run out of fuel. This really did it for my sticky VNTs. I also have the actuators greased (white lithium grease--the same sort used on brake calipers) every time I go off-roading or after driving through heavy rains. From the actuator "output test" I still feel the left side actuator sounds more "clangy" while the right side one is very smooth. If I drive in the city for too long, I occassionally still put a can of Diesel Purge (half litre on 3/4ths tank) when going on highway and give it a few good blasts: sometimes there is a puff of black smoke (but nothing like the massive cloud the first time). This has been keeping my VNTs healthy (sort of).

As for the original problem of the actuator cutting out, after fixing the plastic ECU mounts, the problem occassionally returns. I've had the connectors taken off, thoroughly cleaned, inspected both the terminals and the wires, and though all *looks* good, pressing the cable going to the second ECU down so it does not pull on the connector helps. Every time I have the actuator cutting out, I re-seat the cable where I think it won't snag at the connector plugs and it solves the problem for a few weeks (or months, depending how bumpy the roads are). I still don't know what it is about electricity cutting out from the ECU or electric connectors to the turbo actuator but practically this helps.

So indeed Mr Muscle/ Diesel Purge-and-heavy-acceleration for your VNTs, and for the actuator, though sometimes there is no other solution than replacing them, at least in my case, trial-and-error (and a lot of patience) to detect cause--in my case, not entirely sure *what* is causing it but it certainly has to do with the cable supplying the ECU2--if it snags on the connector plug (I still only assume), the turbo actuator cuts out.

Best luck

PS here's a thread I started as it developed http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/search.php?searchid=13288417
 
#15 ·
#16 ·
Not my experience, however, living at an altitude of 2,400m (and very poor quality of fuel), I sometimes get rough idle--nothing serious but from the sound I can tell it's not "normal" but if I drive to lower altitudes, it becomes normal.
When I get rough idle, VCDS engine measuring block for idle stablisation read high (above 1), more often on left hand bank (Engine II) than right, usually injector 4 and sometimes injector 1 on the right hand bank, however sometimes these injectors are fine and others give abnormal readings. At about 1700m and lower, all injectors read below 0.5. Adding Liqui Moly Super Diesel Additive to improve diesel cetane value mostly helps.
Occasionally if I get rough idle and sluggish, choke-y performance, I know it's time to clean the air filters. Before I changed my fuel-and-vacuum pump, the idle was much rougher--could be because of less fuel going in but also I had motor oil in my fuel filter effectively choking it. Perhaps try cleaning/ replacing air and fuel filters. However, even then at lower altitudes, I did not have rough idle and abnormal idle stabilisation reading. Not sure if this is caused by less oxygen or temperature.
Last week I managed to get the MAF sensors out (wasn't easy putting them back) and cleaned them and MAP sensors with alcohol, but no noticeable change; however the MAF sensor housing was quite dirty and despite swishing them around in a lot of alcohol, the housing wasn't much cleaner. Maybe next time I'll try cleaning them with one of those sensor cleaning sprays.
 
#17 ·
That's gold, thanks Imuhagh,
Think I'll start with some Liqui Moly then get it plugged into a VCDS as soon as possible and check the stabilisation readings etc. (Fuel & air filters done already.)
Really helpful info, thanks again.
Cheers, Rob
 
#20 ·
In VCDS, go to 01-Engine and/ or 11-Engine II (for right and left bank), select "Output Test" (switch on, engine off--will only run output test once; to run it again, have to switch engine on and off again). The output test will first test your EGR and then turbo actuator. It keeps switching it between 5 and 95% and you'll hear your actuators move. If the actuator is stuck (i.e. most likely vanes are sticky), you'll hear it move to a certain point and then it'd start ticking and it won't change whether the output test goes 5 or 95%. If the vanes are sticky, they're more likely to stick on a cold engine and operate fairly well on warm (but you'll still hear the difference between the two sides if one is better than the other).

Also I believe part of my problem is slightly clogged right-hand catalytic converter. Trying to find cleaner; running at excessive temperatures (numerous 0-100 take offs on a highway) cleaned the left converter but the right still smells somewhat of rotten eggs. Can't find catalytic converter cleaners here (fuel additive) but will try next weekend with Diesel Purge and excessive 0-100s. It's hard to determine what comes first: oil leak from turbo clogs converter and back-pressure from converter in turn causes perhaps more oil to leak from turbos (negative pressure). Not sure if either is responsible for sticky vanes or just too much city driving with bad diesel.
 
#23 ·
Yeah, done: no visible corrosion, but cleaned them well and extremely carefully with a fine artists brush and contact cleaner. That and proper mountings helped, the problem hasn't recurred (though it did once after the careful cleaning, perhaps due to carbon buildup in the vanes).

The other problem I'm having is clogged catalytic converters. Not too bad, if I drive down a highway for about a 100km stepping on and letting off the accelerator constantly to build temperature, they get cleaned up (no more sulphur smell from exhausts) but the clogging causes negative pressure leading to more oil going into the exhaust via PCV (largely) and turbo. Anyone here has experience with catch-cans? Am I better of making my own or buying a ready-made one (afraid not enough space)?
 
#26 ·
" Has anyone every attempted or had any success with using oven cleaner on the vanes in the V10 turbos without dropping the engine? I'd love to hear your success! "

Hi everyone , I think im having problems with my turbos / turbo actuators or more hopefully , sticking vanes ....... has no one managed to do this on the V10 with the engine in the vehicle then ?

Is there really no way to get the Mr Muscle into the pipework ?

yours hopefully

Ian
 
#31 ·
following. Mine only cause issues when towing in warm weather (warm being 70F or greater). Towing a heavy trailer or camper up hills seems to trip the code and limp mode. A Key cycle usually resets the condition enough to keep driving for a while then the Limp mode comes back on. I carry a scan tool along to clear the code for longer towing scenarios.
Would really like a fix that works though....
 
#32 ·
Hi I am having the same problem, only seems to happen when towing but has happened twice when not towing. When it happens I shift in to neutral turn off the motor restart while still rolling and keep going for maybe 20 miles and have to do it again or sometimes it just keeps going other times it doesn’t do it at all even when towing for 250 miles. If you find a solution l would love to hear it. The only thing that I noticed was when it went into limp the exhaust sounded like a hissing noise.
 
#36 ·
Engine > Basic settings > Channel 011, then ON/OFF/Next. Or if you've a dropdown box, select the turbo / charge air pressure test / adaptation function from that. Depends on the actual label file what it's called, but they all mean and do the very same thing. Takes about 2 minutes to run. Cycles turbo boost several times. Minimum value should be atmospheric pressure (so, just slightly below 1000 mbar), and maximum value at least 200 mbar more than that.

 
#37 ·
Smoked the intake both sides from air filter charge pipe connection on engine -both sides. PVC hose clamped off to keep L-R sides isolated. Tight and sealed, no leaks
smoked the intakes both sides at the charge intake pipe (again PCV hose pinched off) -no leaks.
I did note some moisture in the upper charge hoses and some oily residue -I've seen it there before other times I've had them off.
I did the turbo adaption as mentioned above. I could only do it using the Master ECU. When attempted in the Slave ECU under Basic settings & channel 011, the ON/OFF/NEXT was greyed out and unavailable.
I'll report back....
 
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