TDI V6 3.0 not starting anymore.. clueless - Club Touareg Forums
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 23 Old 12-19-2017 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Touareg: Still looking
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: orford
Second Vehicle: Still looking
Posts: 18
Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
TDI V6 3.0 not starting anymore.. clueless

2009 Touareg V6 3.0 TDI

Quickly, last week wife is driving around in town, -20c, engine hesitate a few times, then message in dash say go to shop right away then dies... She gets the Touareg towed... back home!! I get in the garage (nice work out..) to get melt it a little, change the battery for a new one while at it. Then re-tried, engine turning but no start. Fuel coming back to the filter after the hpfp at a steady rate, did 3 time the high pressure priming with the n276 (?) pressure control of the rail unplugged. Reset code then, still nothing. I am now clueless after 4 days...

This is what I see when trying to start
189 /min Engine Speed (G2
26.0 mg/str Injection Quantity
26.0 mg/str Start Injection Quantity
411.3 mg/str Mass Air Flow (actual)
10.03 V Supply Voltage (Terminal 30)
0.00 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 1
0.93 l/h Fuel Consumption
283.8 bar High Fuel Pressure (specified)
309.6 bar High Fuel Pressure (actual)
loujet is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 Old 12-19-2017
Touareg Enthusiast
 
gazaflash's Avatar
 
Touareg: 2011 V6 FSI
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Canada
Second Vehicle: VW 2
Posts: 451
Thanks: 12
Thanked 24 Times in 23 Posts
Garage
Do you have a VAGCOM? What error codes come up. Possibly stuck fuel pressure regulator? 10 Volts seem a bit low. See any aluminium debris in the fuel filter??
gazaflash is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to gazaflash For This Useful Post:
loujet (12-20-2017)
post #3 of 23 Old 12-20-2017 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Touareg: Still looking
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: orford
Second Vehicle: Still looking
Posts: 18
Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yes I do have vcds, no codes showed when it died...

Voltage seems a little low but these reading were taken during cranking. High pressure reading seems ok, this would indicate hpfp would be ok, right? While cranking at one point I did collect about 500 ml of returning diesel from the hpfp, it flowed plenty I guess, hard to say but the flow was about the same "size" a the diameter of the hose...
loujet is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 23 Old 12-20-2017
Touareg Enthusiast
 
gazaflash's Avatar
 
Touareg: 2011 V6 FSI
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Canada
Second Vehicle: VW 2
Posts: 451
Thanks: 12
Thanked 24 Times in 23 Posts
Garage
Thatís weird...! I would have thought, since the ECU shut the engine down, there would all sorts of error codes!
When you say ď500mlĒ, is that 500ml flow in 60 sec? Do you have an oscilloscope? Worth fitting to one of the injectors to see what type of voltage trace there is. If the injectors arenít firing, then you will get more fuel returning to the tank. Check fuel pressure relief, fuel regulator
This is baffling, to say the least. I guess its time to start taking things apart.
gazaflash is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to gazaflash For This Useful Post:
loujet (12-20-2017)
post #5 of 23 Old 12-20-2017 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Touareg: Still looking
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: orford
Second Vehicle: Still looking
Posts: 18
Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
gazaflash thanks for your input!

More details the only new codes showing after were these:

001674 - ECM Power Relay Load Circuit
P068A - 000 - Opens Too Early - Intermittent

000897 - Glow Plug/Heater Indicator Circuit
P0381 - 000 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

053286 - Please Check Fault Codes in Transmission Control Module
U1026 - 000 - - Intermittent

Which might appeared after failure, probably when wife drained the battery trying to re-start. The thing that puzzled me some is that the touareg was running perfect the day before, we got that cold snap at -20c it died and after a week-end in the garage never came back to life.

One more detail... ECU has stage 1, DPF and Ad-Blue delete (no EGR delete), work very good since installation this past summer.

The fuel flow was not a precise excercise, only looking at return while cranking for unmeasured time to see what was coming out, filled a small container quite quickly.

When you say Check fuel pressure relief, fuel regulator, do you mean VCDS measure or physically?

Thanks,
loujet is offline  
post #6 of 23 Old 12-20-2017
Touareg Enthusiast
 
Touareg: 2016 V6 TDI
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Interior Alaska
Second Vehicle: Other
Posts: 226
Thanks: 20
Thanked 21 Times in 19 Posts
A couple things that I would suspect. #1 is the fuel. If -20C is normal in your area this is probably not an issue, but if this is an unusual cold snap, the fuel might not be properly winterized.

The second thing that I wonder about is battery voltage and cranking speed. I don't have access to my car right now, but I thought they cranked in excess of 300 rpm. I am unsure of the minimum rpm for the 3.0L, but the 1.9 TDI has to crank in excess of 250 rpm in order for the ECM to fire injectors. Similarly, I don't have a lot of cranking voltages on the Touareg, but my other diesel vehicles crank at about 10.8 - 11.2 volts.

I may be able to get some of that data in a couple days if it's useful to you. What I am wondering is if you had fuel gelling, then the battery died, and the replacement battery may not have been fully charged. It's a long shot, but I've had stranger things happen.
buckwheat is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to buckwheat For This Useful Post:
loujet (12-20-2017)
post #7 of 23 Old 12-20-2017
Moderator
 
hedditch's Avatar
 
Touareg: 2008 V6 TDI
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Melbourne Australia
Second Vehicle: VW 2
Posts: 3,809
Thanks: 63
Thanked 138 Times in 130 Posts
Garage
If you have not already done so, then take the cover off the fuel filter and check for metal filings. Sounds very similar to reported HPFP failures and the vehicle age is in the correct window for this problem.

Stuart...

2008 V6 TDI, with the following Retrofitted Items:
ACC, Front & Side Assist, Paddle Shift, Towbar & Trailer Module, Fiscon Bluetooth. Reversing Camera, Front Fog Lamps, Redarc TowPro Brake Controller, T1 Door Warning Lamps, T1 Under Seat Drawer, Alloy Skid Plate, 5ton Winch, Cayenne Front and Rear Sway Bars, Tuned by Oettinger, Retrofitted 6 Piston Brembo Front Brake Callipers, Sports Steering Wheel, TPMS (OEM), Dual Batteries
hedditch is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to hedditch For This Useful Post:
loujet (12-20-2017)
post #8 of 23 Old 12-20-2017 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Touareg: Still looking
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: orford
Second Vehicle: Still looking
Posts: 18
Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Stuart,

I will do so, but just before, if hpfp would have failed, would I still be getting these numbers on vcds while cranking:

283.8 bar High Fuel Pressure (specified)
309.6 bar High Fuel Pressure (actual)

Thanks for your help!
loujet is offline  
post #9 of 23 Old 12-20-2017 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Touareg: Still looking
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: orford
Second Vehicle: Still looking
Posts: 18
Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
buckwheat! I see you must get cold snap as well in your area!!

The Treg was in the garage after that for a while after the fail, I also added 5 gal of fresher fuel and a new battery, you are right it might noe be fully charged tough. I will put it on the charge right away.

If you ever get confirmation nothing happen below 250rpm on cranking even on 3.0l I'd appreciate, then it would be starter or battery issue...

Sorry guys, just noticed the thanks button on the bottom, I'll use it!!
loujet is offline  
post #10 of 23 Old 12-20-2017
Touareg Enthusiast
 
gazaflash's Avatar
 
Touareg: 2011 V6 FSI
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Canada
Second Vehicle: VW 2
Posts: 451
Thanks: 12
Thanked 24 Times in 23 Posts
Garage
Loujet,
When you were checking the fuel reg and you got 10 volts, was it the fuel retention valve? It should be at 10bar return pressure so that the Piezo injectors can operate properly.
Have a read of the attached training manual on that engine. It is very informative and will help you identify how the engine should work and all its code numbers for main assemblies. It is very useful for diagnosing problems. I am assuming that you have that 3.0 V6 model.

I just thought of another thing. Has there been any moisture/water around the battery areas? There is a fuel shut off relay (in case of accident) and main relay situated close to the battery compartment on the floor. If you had any condensation on the wires and/or connections, this might be the culprit?? You might have checked this already but I thought I would throw this into the mix too!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf SSP_350 3.0_V6_TDI.pdf (1.78 MB, 38 views)
gazaflash is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Club Touareg Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
 

VW Touareg News Delivered to your Email!

Stay up-to-date with Touareg news in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]