is 2016 TDI engine different from 2015? - Club Touareg Forums
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post #1 of 14 Old 11-16-2018 Thread Starter
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is 2016 TDI engine different from 2015?

On the settlement document, it says that 2016 TDI adblue consumption might decrease compared to an increase of about 40% for 2015 model after the fix.
Anyone know why?? It is both categorized the same everywhere else.
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post #2 of 14 Old 11-16-2018
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I followed the tdi debacle and these are my impressions/opinions from that time. My belief is the cold man of winter grains was informed and approved of the program.

Despite orders, some of the VW "rogue engineers" were insiders that kept pressing to improve the emission system. Working around the accountants and upper management hurdles, these engineers managed to sneak hardware improvements and fixes slowly (one by one) onto the tdi vehicles. At the rate they were going, somewhere around the 2020 model, VW would have finally been emission legal.

The later models had some of the hardware fixes already implemented. I know the last models were getting close to being legal. The early models were not even close.

The early systems had converters that were undersized. If you ran the correct amount of adblue thru them, the converters would literally fall apart while under warranty. To prolong the life of the converter, the adblue was deliberately under utilized in earlier model years.

In fact, one of the bombshells of the hearings was about the adblue system failures. VW was unhappy with the amount of adblue warranty failures. VW released a software update that was applied to the vehicles. In fact, the update was to allow the cheat system to more easily detect when the vehicle was being tested, using the angle of the steering wheel. All this update did was to turn down the emission system, so that the adblue was used less, aka pollute more. But, it did delay most of the adblue failures until after warranty was up. It did not stop the failures, but in my opinion it shifted the cost onto the owners.

The later models had larger converters and the adblue was turned up to properly treat the emissions.

VW spent a ton of time optimizing the emissions in the end. You can reduce emissions before the tailpipe by better air-fuel mixes which would mean that you could then use less adblue.

It is possible that the slight reduction in the 2016 is due to better optimization.

Remember, it can be the exact same engine but it could have different emission cats and adblue systems between those years.
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post #3 of 14 Old 11-16-2018
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Interesting post - I'd not read that kind of detail before especially about the engineers - knowing they were in the poo - discreetly getting on with fixing their illegal problem step by step by step.

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post #4 of 14 Old 11-16-2018
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Prior to the "fix" my 2016 would go 10000 miles between DEF service warnings.

After the "fix" that number went to 8000. No problem.

On a recent trip, however, where I towed near the max allowable limits for 3000 out of 10000 miles - I consumed 14 Gallons of DEF!

(While towing, I consumed13/14 mpg vs usual 25/26 mpg). Vehicle performed flawlessly, however DEF consumption went through the roof.

Two dealers have told me to expect 5000 miles per DEF fill post-fix. We'll see how long this fresh tank lasts under routine conditions.
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post #5 of 14 Old 11-16-2018
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Here is one of many articles on Laing. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-v...KCN11F234?il=0
Quote:
“We must be sure to prevent the authority from testing the Gen 1,” the indictment said an employee wrote in German. “If Gen 1 goes onto the roller at the CARB, then we’ll have nothing more to laugh about!!!!!”
Did you get an update and suddenly started using a LOT LESS AdBlue? Read this VW Made Its Defeat Device More Potent To Save On Warranty Repairs: Court Docs
Quote:
This also essentially confirms the answer to the question we so often hear – “Why doesn’t Volkswagen just keep ‘testing mode’ on all the time?” Apparently doing so would cause the cars to fall apart.
And what happened to this beautiful VW prototype? Warning: Don't click unless you have the eye bleach ready. https://electrek.co/2017/03/21/vw-el...ion-standards/
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post #6 of 14 Old 11-16-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbuffalo2 View Post
(While towing, I consumed13/14 mpg vs usual 25/26 mpg). Vehicle performed flawlessly, however DEF consumption went through the roof.
Yes. That is the new normal.

Under light load, the engine will run mostly under lean conditions, which produces less NOx. The less NOx producing mode means less Adblue will be needed.

Under heavy load, the engine will add fuel to make maximum power. This will produce a lot more NOx in the exhaust. As a result, a lot more adblue will be sprayed onto the catalyst to break down the NOx.

Is AdBlue-Dosed SCR the Best NOx Aftertreatment? | Writing about cars

Notice the big wheels have a diesel fuel handle and a second handle for adblue at the pumps. There is a reason.
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post #7 of 14 Old 11-17-2018
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Yep. It was an extreme test that produced those results. The only downside was having to empty the contents of the trunk 4 separate times in order to add the DEF!

I'm normally not a fan of using cruise while towing, but the adaptive cruise feature allowed me to pace behind semi-trailers and give my bad right knee a rest.

As posted elsewhere, I will see how many miles this fresh fill of AdBlue lasts under "normal" conditions.
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post #8 of 14 Old 11-17-2018
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I think you will be happy with the normal usage.

OMG on having to unpack the rear to refill the adblue. I would have been doing my Yosemite Sam imitation the second time that I unpacked the trunk.

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post #9 of 14 Old 11-20-2018 Thread Starter
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Thank you Nicky for the very detailed response. I test drove a 'new' 2016 with 500 miles and it did feel sluggish compared to my 2014(unfixed) which is at 105K flawless miles. That being said, 2016 felt way more refined in the NVH category. Maybe because it is brand new.
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post #10 of 14 Old 11-20-2018
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I will report back on my new 2016 usage, Started with a full tank at 2000, now have 5000 miles on it. Will see if I can go to the next oil change without a warning for DEF. This car has a different tranny programing from my 2012 which I don't really like,but I can live with it. Hoping it will program my driving habits and be better. Time will tell.
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