2013+ 3.0 TDI CNRB intake manifold clogging - Club Touareg Forums
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post #1 of 30 Old 11-17-2017 Thread Starter
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2013+ 3.0 TDI CNRB intake manifold clogging

Hello all,

I bought a 2013 T3 TDI with almost 100k miles on it recently. Having owned a few TDIs I know intake manifold clogging is prevalent when you combine the inevitable oil in the intake with the soot from EGR flow.

Pulled the intake horn off my rig and it was no different





The first one actually looks a little worse than it is.. but, it's bad. 1/8 to 1/4" of nastiness all around. I'd guess it's less thick further into the manifold where velocities are higher, but there's no way it isn't impacting performance, and definitely needs to be fixed. I thoroughly cleaned the intake horn, EGR nozzle, and intake swirl flapper control, and scraped as much out of the first bend of the IM as I could. I'm sure there's still a ton back there.

I've already ordered a spare manifold from germany and the goal is to find a way to clean it without destroying it, to be swapped on later. At the same time I'll rig up something similar to what they do on BMWs using walnut shells to clean their intake ports on the direct injection engines.


I suspect walnuts will be too harsh for the manifold itself, however. At the moment the plan is to build a 360 degree soda blasting nozzle out of nylon tubing and some fittings from home depot..

I've tried chemical treatments in the past on aluminum manifolds and unless they are baked or use the extremely harsh chemical tanks at old-school machine shops they don't end up fully cleaned. Caking to this extent basically laughs at the "put it in a bucket of purple power overnight" advice. That didn't even work on the GM truck manifold I had to clean. Ultrasonic is nice but in the past shops haven't wanted to deal with how thoroughly a TDI manifold will ruin their fluid.



Anyway, curious whether anyone has dealt with this before, or has any thoughts on ways to get the manifold cleaned.



Also, just for entertainment, here is what the often-clogged 99-03 VW ALH engine can end up looking like:


I've personally worked on a couple that my thumb wouldn't fit into the remaining path available for airflow.

If anyone else wants to go down a similar path the intake manifold part number is 059129711CF and not too expensive used on ebay from europe. New, roughly $450. And you'll still need to clean the intake ports on the head. I'll likely end up keeping my original to clean and have on the shelf as a spare to be swapped on later. Who knows, if I can figure out how to clean them I might import a few and start a cleaning service.
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post #2 of 30 Old 11-21-2017
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If you are one of the lucky ones with alloy Y piece, then you could burn it clean:
it took years to build up so cleaning will take some time. When i replaced egr cooler, i decided to do some preventative maintenance. I tried oven cleaner on the plastic swirl flap manifold. It took ages, was very messy and gave up after 4 sprays, brushes and rinses. I could still scrape bits off with a screw driver but was worried something might dislodge into cylinder so I left it as is. It was no where near totally blocked to begin with though. i I did not try burning alloy intake as that looked ok apart from egr hole for which I scraped clean with a screw driver. How can this be better for environment unless the theory is to bin those caked up parts. Egr delete might be on the cards soon me thinks.
BTW - Plastic = more parts sales for vw
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post #3 of 30 Old 11-21-2017 Thread Starter
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It took 100k to get this bad.. I'd probably consider checking the manifold every 40k and with a clean spare on the bench a R&R shouldn't take more than a couple hours.

But yes, reducing EGR/soot flow into the intake is a major reason I'm considering a tune when I get my fix money from VW. On the older cars you could reduce EGR with a simple adaptation adjustment in VCDS but I seriously doubt they made it that easy on these.
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post #4 of 30 Old 11-21-2017
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Bloc,

This is exactly why I have installed a Catch Can on the PCV line......see post #18.

https://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f4...ne-123546.html

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post #5 of 30 Old 11-22-2017
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I suppose you need to eliminate one or the other but wouldn't it be better to get rid of soot from egr? Maybe you lose lubrication properties to turbo,swirl flaps and cylinder valves by installing a Catch Can?
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post #6 of 30 Old 11-22-2017
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Bummer! I wonder what my '14 with 72k looks like! I will ask my VW diesel mechanic about this - including his experience with ALH and other previous gens he is familiar with - maybe we will take mine off and take a look if it is not too hard - thumbs up for coming up with solutions to clean, and the part number for new one..
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post #7 of 30 Old 11-22-2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sams Village View Post
Maybe you lose lubrication properties to turbo,swirl flaps and cylinder valves by installing a Catch Can?
I don't believe they need lubrication as such. The turbo has its own oil feed, the swirl flaps are synthetic bushes and as such don't need oiling.

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post #8 of 30 Old 11-23-2017
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Yep, thatís a mess. Iím working on a simple $0 fix for that mess, that anyone can do in their driveway for $0 with regular hand tools. Not sure if it will work on a 2013+ but Iím experimenting on our 2009 3.0L TDI & have gone a few days so far without a CEL.

2009 Touareg Highline 3.0L V6 TDI with a bit more
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post #9 of 30 Old 11-23-2017 Thread Starter
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The 13/14/15 engines don't actually have swirl flaps.. they have two separate runners from the first pic with the small throttle flap all the way to the heads. The lower runner stays open all the time, and the only "flap" is the small throttle plate.

That's just for info anyway, @hedditch was right about not needing oil in the intake.. everything gets its own lubrication.

Two ways to avoid the buildup would be less/no oil, and less/no soot. The catch can idea can work to reduce oil, but as mentioned often introduce their own problems. One small example is the stock PCV system has a heater in it to avoid icing up in very cold conditions. Most catch cans won't have provisions for this.

Less soot? Less EGR flow would help, but without a tune there basically isn't any way to accomplish this. Using good diesel with a higher cetane rating should reduce soot, though I don't know how much. Same story for injectors being in good shape, injection timing on point (can't adjust this), and generally just the engine running as well as possible. Yes, as things wear soot will increase, as well as oil flow, and it makes sense intake manifold clogging should happen more quickly. As mentioned, mine has 100k on it. AFAIK it was mostly freeway.. but I am very curious how quickly things start clogging once a clean manifold is installed. You can bet I'll be watching it.
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post #10 of 30 Old 11-24-2017
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Sorry Bloc. Just to be clear, all that blockage at 100k miles or km? If km then blockage seems excessive to me.
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