2014 V6 Gas, EPC above 60% throttle - Club Touareg Forums
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post #1 of 17 Old 02-21-2017 Thread Starter
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Thumbs down 2014 V6 Gas, EPC above 60% throttle

Sure could use some help. My 2014 has been at the dealer for over a month. At or above 60% throttle it will fall on its face and kick the EPC on. If you pull over and turn it off, it will reset. Engine runs fine and gets good fuel mileage, but will drop dead at any serious throttle. Idle is smooth. Dealer said it was High pressure pump, they changed it, then said, oops its the tank pump and changed it, then oops must be a bad HPFP changed it. Still does not run. Now the dealer says the engine needs to come out because it could be the cam positioners causing this. I'm at $2500 and they are asking for another $1200 to inspect the cams..84,000 miles, oil change every 5k and runs shell rotella synthetic. Extended warranty is trying to reneg because of the rotella. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 17 Old 02-21-2017
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You mention this is a GAS car.. is that correct? Do they even have an HPFP? I'm 99.99% sure that applies to diesel only. Another thing-- where are you located? The US 2014 had a 100k powertrain warranty that might cover the fuel pump they've replaced.

Regardless, if it is gas, could it be something as simple as bad gas in the tank and the ECM is taking over and saying something's not right? Did you scan it with VCDS prior to taking it in? Is the Rotella oil VW spec?
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post #3 of 17 Old 02-21-2017 Thread Starter
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The 3.6fsi does use a high pressure system. There is a lift pump in the tank and a jackshaft driven cam follower style pump that runs off the back of the cylinder head. this pump raises injector rail pressure to something like 1700 psi (don't quote me) there is a pair of sensors on the pump that control lift pump actuation and rail pressure. The current thought is that the cross over line in the cylinder head between the camshafts has a screen that can pop out dropping pressure to the cam adjusters and the chain tensioner that COULD effect thte jackshaft driven cam that runs the pressure pump. This causing the "low rail pressure" code that it flashes when the EPC comes on. The oil question is deeper. Diesel oil typically has a higher sheer and more detergent than gas oils, you can run diesel in gas but not the other way around. the question of whether the oil has created enough sludge to knock the filter screen out is complete kaka.. I have suggested an oil sample. The question of fuel is also a consideration, however I ran about 3,000 miles before taking it to the dealer. The car drives fine until you get into it's knickers, so it had plenty of fuel exchange (premium) and I run Lucas in every other tank for pump lubricity. The entire fuel system is new and still flashes a low pressure code when the epc is triggered. I have no confidence that they have tested the rail properly. the injectors work without issue as the car was getting 24-25mpg when I drove it to the dealer so the cams not advancing argument doesn't play well with me either. They at my request have checked the Tps, the gas pedal and the Mass air sensor and the brake switch. The car does not set a check engine light.
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post #4 of 17 Old 02-21-2017
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I wonder what a throttle body gear failure would do. There was someone on here who had a TDI where the gears stripped out in the drive by wire throttle body. It would seem this would be realized via MAF readout being too low given throttle position which would also cut fuel for proper mix and a light would come on...no idea what code that would be.

I have never read of this issue driving the pump...sounds like a bloody expensive diagnoses...which brings up the question asked above that you didn't answer about warranty and the 100k...are you over that?

Fuel system crack someplace?
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post #5 of 17 Old 02-22-2017 Thread Starter
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The dealer say's that this car does not have any extended factory coverage for this. I have asked about the throttle body and they seem to think it will set a code, and it is functioning when it goes into EPC. I called BS on their latest proposal, I looked at the training manual and am pretty sure there is simply no way for the fuel pump drive gear to "flutter" because the cam chain is loose. I told them to put the car back together, after 5 weeks I'm done. I will either find a shop that can diagnose or trade it for something else.
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post #6 of 17 Old 02-23-2017
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Any chance your problem is related to your Traction Control System?

Are all 4 of your tires at the same tread depth or within 2/32" front to back tread depth?

If your traction control system thinks you have a tire that has lost traction it shuts down the power until it senses traction has been re-established.

Hey, you never know ????
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post #7 of 17 Old 02-24-2017 Thread Starter
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I hadn't thought of that one! the car has a new set of Nitto 421's on it with about 5K miles on them. Heading to the dealer in a bit to visit about the problem. I don't think at this point they have put a pressure guage on the rail to see exactly when and how it is dumping pressure.
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post #8 of 17 Old 02-24-2017
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I think when Traction Control kicks in the system reduces fuel pressure to cut power, worth investigating further
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post #9 of 17 Old 02-24-2017
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I am interested to learn what this ends up being. Thanks for the updates.

???? This makes me wonder why this hasn't been done. I can't believe this hasn't been done... A pressure drop / leak tests is very important prior to tearing into the engine to look for an internal issue. This could be a leaking injector, bushing / seal, joint or the fuel rail itself. Must be able to tell the difference between a) if there is a leak or b) an issue generating the proper pressure. Oh and a leak wouldn't necessarily smell or be visible...this is very high pressure and would almost certainly vanish after escaping. Truly, the fact that they haven't ruled out a leak between the pump and injector is kind of disheartening as this would be a simple fix...
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post #10 of 17 Old 02-24-2017
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No CEL, ECU will throw a code as soon as it detects low FP not caused by engine management control

When engine looses power the EPC light comes on so that is why I am thinking it is part of the engine management system thinking the wheel(s) have lost traction, can easily be a bad signal telling ECU to go into this mode?

this is one of those situations that 98% of the work is diagnosis and 5% actual fixing the problem
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cam chain , cam positioners , epc , hpfp

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