New brakes/flush still spongy??? - Club Touareg Forums
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post #1 of 33 Old 2 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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New brakes/flush still spongy???

Howdy.

Just purchased a 2012 TDI Touareg 90k miles about 3 weeks ago.

The Car needed new front brakes and rotors so I took it to a VW mechanic in my area. I also mentioned soft/spongy brakes with no bite. They said they would look into.

They call me 2 hours later and say the soft brakes are due to old brake fluid that they tested to 3% moisture so they were going to flush it and solve the issue.

Finally I pick up the car and the mechanic told me its good as new but the brakes will never have a strong bite because the diesel versions of Touaregs are missing some sort of "air brake pump"? He also said it will take 400-500 miles for the new brakes to settle but I don't know if this effect the softness?

Anyways... get into the car and there is still 2 inches of travel on the pedal before any bite and the brakes are soft as hell. Should a flush have fixed this? Is there anything else I need to do to get quick responding brakes?

I drove my girlfriends 2014 Passat and the brakes hit the moment you touch the pedal -- I'm trying to achieve this with my treg.

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks all
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post #2 of 33 Old 1 Week Ago
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Hello..

I don't think you can achieve that level of bite on a Touareg that you find on a Passat. I think it's because of the Treg's weight in comparison to the Passat. My dad's 2016 Passat has such touchy brakes they're almost like an "ON/OFF" switch. Scary, and quite annoying if you don't apply just the right pressure to prevent a very jerky stop.

Did you use OEM brake parts and fluid or was it aftermarket? If aftermarket then maybe that's the reason the brakes don't feel quite right. Of course some aftermarket products are better than others, so it depends what you had installed. I'm by no means an expert on the subject, just offering something to think about.

2009 T2 Shadow Blue 3.6L V6 (BHK 206KW), 18" Valley rims, Vavona wood package, Pure Beige leather interior, sunroof
2005 T1 Blue Silver 3.2L V6 (BMV 177KW), 18" Manhattan rims, wooden steering wheel and shift lever, otherwise pretty basic (being prepared for sale)
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post #3 of 33 Old 1 Week Ago Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply

Thanks for reply. You make a great point about the weight of the car, they will probably never be as responsive as something like a passat, but currently it still takes about 2 inches until I start to get a bite from the brakes.

Also I notice it takes about an inch and a half on the brakes before the shifter disengages to let me shift from park to drive etc, is this common?

It seems to me that the mechanic didn't bleed/flush correctly and there still might be air in the system. Im taking a small road trip this weekend so I'm hoping the brakes will start to bed in and help but my guess is that the far & soft pedal is another issue and I will have to take it back.

Any other insight would be helpful, also any info on whether or not the mechanic was blowing smoke when he said that the TDI brake system are different than petrol brake system for a Touareg?

Thanks all.
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post #4 of 33 Old 1 Week Ago Thread Starter
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Oops forgot to mention mechanic said he put in all OEM parts.
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post #5 of 33 Old 1 Week Ago
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This mechanic sounds shady AF..... what parts were replaced? There are proper "bedding" in procedures for new pads. If things feel spongy, you still have air in the system..... keep bleeding it. Do you trust him that he used OEM parts? If you've used quality parts and installed them properly, there's no reason why you'd have less than stellar brakes. If there's a possibility that he used cheap crap and cut other corners, than anything is possible.
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^Yeah I feel a little off about it all --- Driving 300 miles this weekend so hopefully, they'll settle in. Otherwise gonna go back and complain or go to a diff shop. I did call this morning and confirm the brakes/rotors. Confirmed they're actually not OEM... but still quality stuff: Akebono pads and Zimmerman Rotors on the car.

I've seen solid feedback/reviews on the akebono's but have also read that they lack an initial bite? Anyone know of this or think this could be contributing?

Thanks!
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Could be, hard to say...
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post #8 of 33 Old 1 Week Ago
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To your question about brake pedal travel before the switch lets you out of park - that is simply a adjustment on the switch. An inch plus a little is normal.

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post #9 of 33 Old 1 Week Ago Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply, good to know! but that 1-2inches there should still have some bite right?
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post #10 of 33 Old 1 Week Ago
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You mechanic probably used the correct brakes for a 2012. The brakes were a lot less aggressive after 2010.

The first part are going to have to look for certain brake pads with a high initial bite. The next part of what you are looking for is a ECE R90 certified pad. You will also want to go with the high carbon rotors, not the regular rotors for that bite.


clubtouareg.com/forums/f44/aftermarket-brake-pads-and-rotors


All of the T1's all shipped with this setup. Pagid pads and Brembro Rotors were the VW OEM and those T1's were twitchy. IE: you had to apply just the right pressure or you would get a jerky stop.

Here is just one post that discusses the issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamT View Post
As many know, I've been looking for alternatives to the excellent performing but relatively short-lived OEM VW pads/rotors. I won't be driving on the Autobahn and I'm primarily looking for better pad/rotor longevity than OEM. Less dust and lower cost are pluses but no less performance. I definitely do not want to see rust on the rotor hubs or unswept surfaces -- that's just plain ugly.

In short, besides VW OEM pads/rotors (Pagid, SHW), I would say Hawk/Zimmermann Coat-Z and EBC are the only suitable alternatives to OEM European-spec performance that I personally would use. Here is a brief summary. And here it goes:

After reading through various threads of excellent (and civil ) discussions here on ClubTouareg, it should not be a surprise that the best combination of brake pads and rotors are those of the European specification materials (duh).

Our fellow member, Zegm, described in message #25 of the following Pagid thread the formulation differences between European and American brake pads and the safety implications of using anything less. EBC Brakes (used by TVaitonis) also noted that American and Asian brake pads commonly use lower friction materials, and that it would be dangerous to intermix both types with European-spec on a vehicle. This is consistent with some of the lack-of-bite complaints owners here reported using domestic friction materials on their European cars (even if these pads/rotors cost about 50% of the approx $800+ (plus your local tax) over the VW counter).

However, that is not to say all domestic brake pads bite like wimpy cardboards -- relatively speaking. Hawk Performance's LTS is one described by Nltomba as a long-lasting, excellent alternative to OEM VW pads. (Many OEM pads are Pagids by TMD Friction Group; other common ones on VWs are Jurids by Honeywell Europe Friction Materials.)

Hawk Performance are excellent carbon-metallic pads made by Wellman Products Group. They supply heavy duty friction materials to companies like Caterpillar, Boeing, Lockheed, EADS, Canadair Regional Jets and to companies like Volvo (truck or auto??). They of course make aftermarket Hawk HPS and LTS pads for the Touaregs! Hawk rules, I'd say.

Pagid pads:
https://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f...s-22701-3.html

Read "In what ways are European pads different and why does this affect me?"
Regulation 90 (ECE R90 ) - Important Information | EBC Brakes


Hawk Performance, Wellman Products Group:
Advanced Friction Material Solutions - Wellman Products Group
http://www.hawkperformance.com/

Therefore the following is a list of pads and rotors I'd pick from. And I'm always interested to hear about other people's suggestions.

Rotors:
VW OEM Schwäbische Hüttenwerke rotors:
OEM anticorrosion coated discs. (Note: however, some owners claim their T'reg rotors are not corrosion coated. It would be nice to find the manufacturer's name stamped on those rotors.)
*** Also supplying Porsche, VW, Audi, BMW, Lamborghini, Bentley, Brembo
Schwäbische Hüttenwerke Automotive GmbH - Portrait

Otto-Zimmermann rotors (German TÜV certified):
Coat-Z anticorrosion coatinghttp://www.otto-zimmermann.de/index.php5?option=com_content&view=article&id=89&I temid=154

EBC Brakes, Freeman Products Group (UK):
A UK manufacturer, British made brake discs.
Anodized coating.
EBC Brakes - Brakes for Cars, Motorcycles, Trucks and SUV

Continental Teves:
Most European cars' master cylinders are ATE-made, including the T'reg.
Anti-corrosion coating.
ATE -North America
ATE


Friction Materials:

TMD Friction Group, (OEM):
http://www.pagid.de/
Textar
Pagid
Mintex
Don
Cobreq
Cosid

Continental Teves:
ATE -North America
ATE

EBC Brakes, Freeman Products Group:
EBC Brakes - Brakes for Cars, Motorcycles, Trucks and SUV
All brake pads for European markets must be ECE R90 certified.

European Regulation R90:
Regulation 90 (ECE R90 ) - Important Information | EBC Brakes

Honeywell Friction Materials
Technology and Innovations - About Us - Friction Materials Aftermarket Europe
Jurid
Bendix (if this domestic brand offers Euro-spec friction)


BTW, I have not been able to find aftermarket Brembo-branded pads and rotors for the T'regs (except a front rotor set on eBay from an individual seller).
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bleed , brakes , flush , rotors , spongy

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