Aftermarket Brake Pads and Rotors - Club Touareg Forums
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post #1 of 29 Old 07-23-2010 Thread Starter
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Aftermarket Brake Pads and Rotors

As many know, I've been looking for alternatives to the excellent performing but relatively short-lived OEM VW pads/rotors. I won't be driving on the Autobahn and I'm primarily looking for better pad/rotor longevity than OEM. Less dust and lower cost are pluses but no less performance. I definitely do not want to see rust on the rotor hubs or unswept surfaces -- that's just plain ugly.

In short, besides VW OEM pads/rotors (Pagid, SHW), I would say Hawk/Zimmermann Coat-Z and EBC are the only suitable alternatives to OEM European-spec performance that I personally would use. Here is a brief summary. And here it goes:

After reading through various threads of excellent (and civil ) discussions here on ClubTouareg, it should not be a surprise that the best combination of brake pads and rotors are those of the European specification materials (duh).

Our fellow member, Zegm, described in message #25 of the following Pagid thread the formulation differences between European and American brake pads and the safety implications of using anything less. EBC Brakes (used by TVaitonis) also noted that American and Asian brake pads commonly use lower friction materials, and that it would be dangerous to intermix both types with European-spec on a vehicle. This is consistent with some of the lack-of-bite complaints owners here reported using domestic friction materials on their European cars (even if these pads/rotors cost about 50% of the approx $800+ (plus your local tax) over the VW counter).

However, that is not to say all domestic brake pads bite like wimpy cardboards -- relatively speaking. Hawk Performance's LTS is one described by Nltomba as a long-lasting, excellent alternative to OEM VW pads. (Many OEM pads are Pagids by TMD Friction Group; other common ones on VWs are Jurids by Honeywell Europe Friction Materials.)

Hawk Performance are excellent carbon-metallic pads made by Wellman Products Group. They supply heavy duty friction materials to companies like Caterpillar, Boeing, Lockheed, EADS, Canadair Regional Jets and to companies like Volvo (truck or auto??). They of course make aftermarket Hawk HPS and LTS pads for the Touaregs! Hawk rules, I'd say.

Pagid pads:
https://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f4...s-22701-3.html

Read "In what ways are European pads different and why does this affect me?"
Regulation 90 (ECE R90 ) - Important Information | EBC Brakes


Hawk Performance, Wellman Products Group:
Advanced Friction Material Solutions - Wellman Products Group
http://www.hawkperformance.com/

Therefore the following is a list of pads and rotors I'd pick from. And I'm always interested to hear about other people's suggestions.

Rotors:
VW OEM Schwäbische Hüttenwerke rotors:
OEM anticorrosion coated discs. (Note: however, some owners claim their T'reg rotors are not corrosion coated. It would be nice to find the manufacturer's name stamped on those rotors.)
*** Also supplying Porsche, VW, Audi, BMW, Lamborghini, Bentley, Brembo
Schwäbische Hüttenwerke Automotive GmbH - Portrait

Otto-Zimmermann rotors (German TÜV certified):
Coat-Z anticorrosion coatinghttp://www.otto-zimmermann.de/index.php5?option=com_content&view=article&id=89&I temid=154

EBC Brakes, Freeman Products Group (UK):
A UK manufacturer, British made brake discs.
Anodized coating.
EBC Brakes - Brakes for Cars, Motorcycles, Trucks and SUV

Continental Teves:
Most European cars' master cylinders are ATE-made, including the T'reg.
Anti-corrosion coating.
ATE -North America
ATE


Friction Materials:

TMD Friction Group, (OEM):
http://www.pagid.de/
Textar
Pagid
Mintex
Don
Cobreq
Cosid

Continental Teves:
ATE -North America
ATE

EBC Brakes, Freeman Products Group:
EBC Brakes - Brakes for Cars, Motorcycles, Trucks and SUV
All brake pads for European markets must be ECE R90 certified.

European Regulation R90:
Regulation 90 (ECE R90 ) - Important Information | EBC Brakes

Honeywell Friction Materials
Technology and Innovations - About Us - Friction Materials Aftermarket Europe
Jurid
Bendix (if this domestic brand offers Euro-spec friction)


BTW, I have not been able to find aftermarket Brembo-branded pads and rotors for the T'regs (except a front rotor set on eBay from an individual seller).
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post #2 of 29 Old 07-23-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamT View Post
As many know, I've been looking for alternatives to the excellent performing but relatively short-lived OEM VW pads/rotors. I won't be driving on the Autobahn and I'm primarily looking for better pad/rotor longevity than OEM. Less dust is a plus but no less performance. I definitely do not want to see rust on the rotor hubs -- that's just plain ugly.

In short, besides VW OEM pads/rotors (Pagid, SHW), I would say Hawk/Zimmermann Coat-Z and EBC are the only suitable alternatives to OEM European-spec performance that I personally would use. Here is a brief summary. And here it goes:

After reading through various threads of excellent (and civil ) discussions here on ClubTouareg, it should not be a surprise that the best combination of brake pads and rotors are those of the European specification materials (duh).

Our fellow member, Zegm, described in message #25 of the following Pagid thread the formulation differences between European and American brake pads and the safety implications of using anything less. EBC Brakes (used by TVaitonis) also noted that American and Asian brake pads commonly use lower friction materials, and that it would be dangerous to intermix both types with European-spec on a vehicle. This is consistent with some of the lack-of-bite complaints owners here reported using domestic friction materials on their European cars (even if these pads/rotors cost about 50% of the approx $800+ (plus your local tax) over the VW counter).

However, that is not to say all domestic brake pads bite like wimpy cardboards -- relatively speaking. Hawk Performance's LTS is one described by Nltomba as a long-lasting, excellent alternative to OEM VW pads. (Many OEM pads are Pagids by TMD Friction Group; other common ones on VWs are Jurids by Honeywell Europe Friction Materials.)

Hawk Performance are excellent carbon-metallic pads made by Wellman Products Group. They supply heavy duty friction materials to companies like Caterpillar, Boeing, Lockheed, EADS, Canadair Regional Jets and to companies like Volvo (truck or auto??). They of course make aftermarket Hawk HPS and LTS pads for the Touaregs! Hawk rules, I'd say.

Pagid pads:
https://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f4...s-22701-3.html

Read "
[/SIZE][/SIZE]In what ways are European pads different and why does this affect me?"
Regulation 90 (ECE R90 ) - Important Information | EBC Brakes
Hawk Performance, Wellman Products Group:
Advanced Friction Material Solutions - Wellman Products Group
http://www.hawkperformance.com/

Therefore the following is a list of pads and rotors I'd pick from. And I'm always interested to hear about other people's suggestions.

[/SIZE]Rotors:[/SIZE]
VW OEM Schwäbische Hüttenwerke rotors:
OEM anticorrosion coated discs. (Note: however, some owners claim their T'reg rotors are not corrosion coated. It would be nice to find the manufacturer's name stamped on those rotors.)
*** Also supplying Porsche, VW, Audi, BMW, Lamborghini, Bentley, Brembo
Schwäbische Hüttenwerke Automotive GmbH - Portrait

Otto-Zimmermann rotors (German TÜV certified):
Coat-Z anticorrosion coatinghttp://www.otto-zimmermann.de/index.php5?option=com_content&view=article&id=89&I temid=154

EBC Brakes, Freeman Products Group (UK):
A UK manufacturer, British made brake discs.
Anodized coating.
EBC Brakes - Brakes for Cars, Motorcycles, Trucks and SUV

Continental Teves:
Most European cars' master cylinders are ATE-made, including the T'reg.
Anti-corrosion coating.
ATE -North America
ATE


Friction Materials:

TMD Friction Group, (OEM):
Welcome to the Frontpage
Textar
Pagid
Mintex
Don
Cobreq
Cosid

Continental Teves:
ATE -North America
ATE

EBC Brakes, Freeman Products Group:
EBC Brakes - Brakes for Cars, Motorcycles, Trucks and SUV
All brake pads for European markets must be ECE R90 certified.

European Regulation R90:
Regulation 90 (ECE R90 ) - Important Information | EBC Brakes

Honeywell Friction Materials
Technology and Innovations - About Us - Friction Materials Aftermarket Europe
Jurid
Bendix (if this domestic brand offers Euro-spec friction)


BTW, I have not been able to find aftermarket Brembo-branded pads and rotors for the T'regs (except a front rotor set on eBay from an individual seller).

I have had excellent results with EBC yellows. I have 45K on my current set. The fronts are due for replacement but the rears look fine.

2007 V10 TDI
2009 VW Jetta TDI
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post #3 of 29 Old 07-23-2010
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I just bought OEM Vw pads,Say Brembo and have Pagid stamped into the metal back plate,$150 list,cost $120. rears cost $88 same ID.$ 94 for centric front rotors ,center hub coated,Marty
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post #4 of 29 Old 07-23-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Depiry View Post
I just bought OEM Vw pads,Say Brembo and have Pagid stamped into the metal back plate,$150 list,cost $120. rears cost $88 same ID.$ 94 for centric front rotors ,center hub coated,Marty
Where did you get your supplies from?

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post #5 of 29 Old 07-23-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BadAssT-Rex View Post
Where did you get your supplies from?
Vw dealer,and Parts Authority store,Marty
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post #6 of 29 Old 07-23-2010 Thread Starter
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That's a mighty great deal for the VW pads!!

However, where were the Centric rotors made? The powder coated paint sounded like the Raybestos Advanced Technology rotors.

However, that's almost the same average cost as the TUV-certified Zimmermann Coat-Z rotors. That's why I think Zimmermanns are such a great deal (autopartswarehouse, plus shipping $ of course).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Depiry View Post
I just bought OEM Vw pads,Say Brembo and have Pagid stamped into the metal back plate,$150 list,cost $120. rears cost $88 same ID.$ 94 for centric front rotors ,center hub coated,Marty
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post #7 of 29 Old 07-29-2010 Thread Starter
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Here is an excellent explanation about "carbon metallic" vs ceramic pads from Performance Friction as posted in a Jeep forum, which also answered my question as to why Hawk has to call theirs "Ferro-Carbon" pads. Read on:

"I just received an awesome response from Performance Friction on an email I sent them last night asking about carbon metallic vs. ceramic brake pads and which provides better braking. They manufacture both types of brake bads so they shouldn't biased either way.

In summary, PF backed us pro-carbon metallic brake pad supporters up 100% so far as stopping power goes.

"As far as stopping power, Carbon Metallic has a significant advantage. It is very difficult to get the same torque output from a NAO pad as that of the Carbon Metallic pad. Another factor is compressibility, with the clay fillers in "ceramic" pads the result is a spongy pedal at extreme temperatures."

Performance Friction goes on to explain how both are constructed...

"As for the technology behind brake pads, the "ceramic" pads on the market are not technologically speaking "more advanced". "Ceramic" is a marketing term used to describe "non-asbestos organic" (NAO) or organic pads, which contain small to moderate amounts of ceramic powders or fibers. NAO materials typically exhibit low friction, high wear rates at high temperatures, and increased compressibility/soft brake pedal under hot stopping conditions. To counteract this behavior they sometimes contain many other raw materials (such as abrasives and metal sulfides) to maintain thermal stability. While some toxic materials have been effectively replaced, "ceramic" or NAO friction materials still often contain fibers with many similar properties as asbestos (potassium titanate, antimony,cadmium, etc.) These "ceramic" brake pads are not to be confused with true ceramic composite brake components used on some high-end cars in limited quantities. Real ceramic composite components have a ceramic matrix, and usually contain reinforcing fibers or particles to improve toughness and reduce catastrophic cracking. NAO ("Ceramic") pads have an organic matrix.

Semi-Metallic friction materials were first seen as a high-performance
alternative to asbestos materials as asbestos was being phased out.
Typically a semi-met friction material is a mixture of steel fiber, iron
powder, phenolic resin and clay and organic fillers. Fillers may be organic
powders, fibers, rubbers, abrasives, lubricants such as graphite, inorganic powders, etc. Trade-off in formulations - rotor wear for temperature stability.

Carbon Metallic( (a Federally Registered Trademark of Performance Friction Corp.) brake pads are high-tech composites incorporating large volume amounts of special carbon powders and fibers in a metallic matrix that dramatically improves the thermal stability, stopping power, and noise characteristics of the friction material while yielding improvements in pad wear, and disc wear. Technically advanced control of the molecular structure of the carbon and the layering of the composite attachment provide thermal stability, and exceptional noise and vibration characteristics. The characteristics of this product include good wear under all service conditions, good effectiveness and pedal feel, and low noise. This type of material is often specified by truck and police fleets due to favorable impact on the operating costs of the fleets: lower cost per mile. "

The above from message #7 of:
Ceramic pads (more than you ever wanted to know on carbon metallic vs. ceramic) - JeepForum.com
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post #8 of 29 Old 07-29-2010
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post #9 of 29 Old 07-29-2010 Thread Starter
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As I do more searches people were comparing and trading opinions on Performance Friction, CarboTech and Hawk. It'll probably come down to personal preference or even price. Because PF are said to be about 1/2 the price of Hawk.

I wonder if the kevlar/cermaic/etc formulation of CarboTech pads share more similarities with EBCs than carbon metallics of PF and Hawk.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DCC View Post
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post #10 of 29 Old 07-30-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamT View Post
A
[/SIZE]Rotors:
VW OEM Schwäbische Hüttenwerke rotors:
OEM anticorrosion coated discs. (Note: however, some owners claim their T'reg rotors are not corrosion coated. It would be nice to find the manufacturer's name stamped on those rotors.)
The OEM rotors have no anti corrosion coating (other than the oily coating they are shipped with, which must be stripped before installing the rotors)...I've owned 3 of these things and have been driving them since '04. All have had OEM rotors that corrode around the vents. I've bought 3 sets of OEM replacement rotors and all have exhibited the exact same tendency. I bought my V6 and V8 brand new and they had the same rotor rust with factory installed components.

Here's a pic of the front rotors on my V10, they are 18 months old and are OEM...its a crappy cell phone pics but it shows the rust:

Also in terms of the OEM supplier, while SHW is a VW supplier, I don't believe they supply rotors for the Touareg/Cayenne/Q7...The rotors I've purchased from the dealer have had the brembo logo on them (the stylized "B"), as Depiry mentions, the pad boxes read Brembo on them but are stamped "Pagid".

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