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VW TDI EPA Recall (2.0L and 3.0L)

2M views 13K replies 494 participants last post by  YALCIN 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
#2 ·
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#3 ·
#5 ·
Here is what EPA/CA stated ...

Carmaker allegedly used software that circumvents emissions testing for certain air pollutants


09/18/2015: EPA, California Notify Volkswagen of Clean Air Act Violations

Here in IL and I would assume a few more states, our local EPA doesn't even test diesels for emissions, they're exempt (as well as EV's and NG powered vehicles)

Here is the key 'admission' by VW of its presence:

"EPA and CARB uncovered the defeat device software after independent analysis by researchers at West Virginia University, working with the International Council on Clean Transportation, a non-governmental organization, raised questions about emissions levels, and the agencies began further investigations into the issue. In September, after EPA and CARB demanded an explanation for the identified emission problems, Volkswagen admitted that the cars contained defeat devices."
 
#27 ·
A couple articles I read have the Feds delaying release of the 2.0L TDIs because they replicated the "cheat" and that's when VAG admitted to the algorithmic switch.

If nothing else, it looks like this is going to be great "auto theater" in weeks ahead...
Agreed. And more over-regulation to appease the new torch-and-pitchfork populist America. Meanwhile, GM and Ford high-five each other.
 
#13 ·
On the surface this looks really bad...

VAG needs to respond quickly and correctly. This has the earmarks of bringing bigger brand damage than the falsely accused "run away" Audis of the 80's. Even though the 3.0L TDI is not mentioned, it could easily become collateral damage in a PR nightmare.

VAG has admitted to building an algorithm for the 2.0L TDI that knows when it is being tested for emissions. If they delibritly, knowingly, purposely programmed the vehicle to cheat, I'm not sure what response could even be offered. But VAG better know...

If proven true, VAG is going to pay a heavy price in the court of public appeal (let alone what the regulators will do).

"TDI" has become an important brand attribute in NA - and around the world. If the acronym turns into a joke like, "Totally Deceitful Information", than I'm afraid our resale values will go down along with VAGs reputation.
 
#14 ·
Looking forward to VW's official response. That will be key. A PR nightmare in any event but I think VW will find a way to mitigate it. Agree that the 'Clean Diesel' slogan is over no matter the outcome.
 
#16 ·
Yep, it all comes down to what VAG says Monday. "Ze EPA vanted von tested outcome, Ve gave vem von tested outcome...and then ve vent back to polluting ze air", probably won't work so well...

I'll never forget the 60 Minutes "Audi Killer" interview. The VAG engineer, unemotionally sitting there saying, "It is not ze kar, it is ze driver." With the driver on the other side of the interview being a mother who killed her son by driving him through the garage door, through the garage itself, and into the pool.

Even though it proved to be driver error, it still destroyed Audi for 10+ years here.

Thankfully we aren't talking about loss-of-life, but in many respects this could be much worse for VAG...
 
#19 ·
#132 ·
Maybe this is why Herr Piëch manufactured his exit this past year. He saw it coming...

VW `Clean Diesel' Scheme Exposed as Criminal Charges Weighed - Bloomberg Business

EPA: 482K VW diesel vehicles violated emissions rules

And now the board will beg him to come back and fix things ;)
more realistic i think is that when they first got wind of it they confronted him, he eventually confessed his hatred for all things environmental given his love of speed speed speed, so they canned him. now they can blame the departed CEO for everything.
 
#23 ·
The Obama Administration up to its usual corporate witch hunts again when there are far greater issues. Gee, you mean cars spit out pollution that might dirty the air? No duh. They should give VW engineers a trophy for developing fuel efficient engines and pushing Detroit to innovate. I am as proud as ever of owning 2 TDIs.
 
#31 ·
I didn't realize the EPA was part of the executive branch... Makes total sense though, it appears they were even in collusion with West Virginia University, that viper's pit of liberalism.

This has nothing to do with cars simply spitting out pollution - it has to do with VW knowingly lying about how much pollution their cars spit out and going to great lengths to hide the actual amount. I hope one of your two TDIs isn't a 2.0L, because once the SCR is operating as it should, efficiency and power are going to be significantly reduced.
 
#24 ·
Probably so, for the 3.0 (and MB), because German diesels could all get lumped into the category of "those polluting diesels".

But, that could wreak havoc on diesel even coming here. VAG sells 60% of NA diesels. Because of this the 2016s are now stopped at the ports. Will they abandon NA?

And I'll be so disappointed if this stops me from getting a German diesel/electric, 3rd row, 4CAir rig delivered to NA...
 
#25 ·
Does the EPA action stop 2016s at the ports? My understanding is that this affects V4 TDIs, so incoming 2016 Touaregs and Q7s should not be held up.
 
#26 ·
A couple articles I read have the Feds delaying release of the 2.0L TDIs because they replicated the "cheat" and that's when VAG admitted to the algorithmic switch.

If nothing else, it looks like this is going to be great "auto theater" in weeks ahead...
 
#30 ·
But…it only affected the 4 cylinders? Shouldn’t that mean that those V6s and (potentially V10s) out there are fine? VW may have a trust problem, but I think of their 3.0L V6 TDI as their main attraction, so whats a few 4 cylinders?

Also what is actually being said by the EPA? Is is really possible that a 4 cylinder engine, albeit diesel, will pollute more than a petrol V12? Why wouldn’t Bentley be in trouble for polluting with their new W12 Bentayga more than this? Is the issue really just that the software was created to lie? Just don’t see the issue in lying if the end result is still cleaner than a ton of other cars that are presently on the road…
 
#32 ·
Yes appears to only be the 2.0L and its lack of a more sophisticated AdBlue urea system. Fixing a 1/2 million cars (without degrading the milage and torque specs that drew customers) should be an interesting feat.

Who knew our (at times) temperamental AdBlue system are a saving grace ;)

The PR nightmare is going to be the thing. They purposely built a work around (or "cheat" as the feds are saying) the EPA standards, diesels are big in the growth plan for VAG, diesels are misunderstood in NA (certainly in the US), nobody but car geeks will know - want to know - the difference, and the whole "clean diesel" imagine/branding just blew up in their faces.

VW decision to knowingly roll-the-dice on the rules, puts the reputation of the firm at risk of becoming the latest tageted corporate villain. Lets see what their response will be.
 
#33 ·
I Think I'll keep driving my grossly polluting V10 TDI. Unfortunately this all only serves to derail my hopes for an EPA compliant version of a V8 TDI. Pipe dream, I know.
 
#38 ·
I bought my 2010 Golf TDI wagon because I thought I was doing something for the environment and that the car would have a higher resale when I finally sell it down the road.

Having also seen how some of the Touareg owners have been treated by VW (hiding under EPA definitions on what is pollution equipment) when they encountered Ad-Blue issues I have completely lost faith. Hopefully the 2014 Touareg TDI lasts a long time as it is my last VW product.

Mike
 
#39 ·
Many points that I think all should ponder:
(nope, some are questions you should google the answers if you don't know)

1. How much was that over hyped recent record setting Toyota Fine for?

2. Consider the hyped GM recent key flaw... and how much was that Fine for?

3. Ad-blue reminds me of the first couple of years of R-134A (where it did not work and kept breaking down). Hopefully in the future it will become reliable. 'Cause currently it ain't. Know what I mean Vern?

4. The EPA of the 1980's told us that black particulate soot from diesels was not a pollutant or a source of any environmental health concerns. Breath it all in deep folks, it must be good for you if the governor says it is ok. To defend the EPA one could note that the supreme court has made many historical errors also.

What a spectacualr mess.

To fix it... VW quickly needs to change from being a auto manufacturer to being a banking corporation. As we have seen, not matter how bad the crime, bankers are rarely charged or have to serve time.
 
#40 ·
I wonder why they targeted the TDI? Light duty diesel sales in the U.S. Are less than 1% of total sales. Even if the TDI's are emitting the amount of NOX that is claimed, it has virtually zero effect on the air quality.

The fix is probably going to be an ECU update that will reduce power and decrease fuel economy. How many people are going to take their TDI to the dealer under a recall that will result in poorer fuel economy? I suppose the owners in California have no choice due to the fact they must pass emissions to keep their registration current.
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