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Friend of mine just got a Chevy Bolt EV

18K views 90 replies 14 participants last post by  Stabone33 
#1 ·
He and his wife have been Honda people forever. In other words, they're not car people. They've been interested in an EV with >200 mile range and decided on the Bolt. He took me for a ride in it yesterday (he drove).

My Quick Positive Impressions:

The Bolt seems amazingly quiet on the road. Not just lack of noise from internal combustion, but impressively low road noise. I was kind of shocked. My GTI probably has 10x the road noise of the Bolt.

Passenger seat very comfortable, plenty of head & leg room.

Very quick from a standing start (as expected for an EV).

Nice large touchscreen & of course digital driver display with clever graphics displaying energy flow etc.

Quick Negative Impressions

The interior trim (dashboard etc) is loaded with hard plastic parts. No matter how you spin it, it looks like plastic. A (e)Golf is far and away nicer on stuff like that.

Comes with no spare tire. No nothing under the cargo floor but a bunch of empty compartments. We suspect something got left out during dealer prep. TBD.

Well that's my takeaway from a 10 minute ride in the passenger seat. :)
 
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#2 ·
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Honda drivers as non-enthusiast...I bought a 2013 Honda Accord Sport with a 6-speed transmission a few months ago while I bide my time waiting for one of the repaired Golf Sportwagens to show up on the market.

This Honda is very much a car-person's car. My wife typically drives it instead of the Touareg because she finds the Accord more fun to drive. Yesterday she offered my 14-year old daughter (she has a learner's permit) the choice of the Honda or the Touareg for a 20 mile drive they had to make. She chose the Honda. They don't make Car and Driver's 10-best list for 30 years straight by being non-car people cars.

Now anyone who purchases/considers a Bolt qualifies as a non-car person in my book.
 
#3 ·
I peeked inside a brand-new Bolt yesterday - it does not come with a spare, it had run-flats on it. Saw the same empty compartment under the rear cargo floor, covered by a cheap, carpet-wrapped particle board cover that will be completely adequate to hold groceries, briefcases, whatever. The leather on the interior was sufficently thick with soft padding, but overall the car is a bit smaller than I thought it would be from pictures on the interwebs. It looks like a perfectly cromulent commuter car.
 
#4 ·
Interesting. We just looked at one at the Cleveland auto show. Yea a little plasticy but the advertised 238 miles is really cool. I was pulling for the i3 but with 114 miles of range it's already dated. I think they said the home charger is 3500 bucks.

John
 
#5 ·
I shouldn't characterize all Honda owners as not being car people. However these are self-described "not car people". They view cars as a means of transportation. Full stop. They could not care less about anything except comfortable reliable conveyance. When they buy a car they buy the base model with as few options as possible. They have the base Bolt with the $750 hi-capacity charging option. Their CR-V is a base model with no options.

I noticed that seemingly-flimsy cargo floor cover in the Bolt too.

The Bolt of course has OnStar with cellular connectivity. Myself, I think the intelligent crash response capability of OnStar (and VW Car-Net) is a fantastically good feature. I asked him if he plans to subscribe to OnStar after the 3 month trial. "No, waste of money, that's why we have cell phones". He was completely closed to it, not interested. Well ok then. Lol.
 
#6 ·
The Bolt is definitely a game changer with a range of a gasoline powered vehicle. And tons cheaper than the not-yet-available Tesla 3.

$3,500 for the home charger is not bad. Remember, the Bolt is marketed to early adopters. They want it and will pay to have it. Prices will only drop from there. :- )

As for no spare, most people will not be road tripping in these cars. LOL!!
 
#7 ·
Apparently the vast majority of new EVs are leased, not purchased. I assume that's because the future value of a current model EV is a huge unknown due to how quickly EV technology is evolving. Leasing provides a concrete future value. If something way better in an EV is available at the end of the lease you turn in the keys and walk away.

My friends chose to purchase. They plan to drive this Bolt for a long time. Hopefully the numbers will work out for them. Meantime they're driving a very cool EV. :)

Oh yeah: If you lease you don't get the huge tax credit(s). But those credits are supposed to reduce the monthly lease payment.
 
#8 ·
There's also a likely battery replacement after about 8 years of daily driving. Don't recall how many full-depth charge/discharge cycles the Li-Ion batteries have, but it's something like 1,000.

Since most people get rid of cars before the 5-year point, that won't be a problem for the first owner, but resale/trade may be significantly reduced. Which means secondhand owners will basically get cheap, disposable cars to drive for a couple years before they're scrapped and batteries recycled. Unless Tesla or GM or a third party like Batteries Plus :) come up with a cheap replacement program.
 
#9 ·
The Bolt buyers previously owned a Civic Hybrid that was about 8 or 9 years old. They said the Civic's battery was showing signs of not charging back up fully. They traded the Civic in on a new CR-V. The dealer gave them decent trade-in value. I'd be curious to know what the dealer ended up doing with the Civic.

Anyways eight years on a car is arguably long enough to reasonably declare it at end of useful life for many owners. Or maybe not.

Sez a looney tune that buys a new car every year!
 
#10 ·
There are dedicated hybrid wrecking yards now and they rebuild the battery packs. You can get rebuilt packs for MUCH less than a new pack from the manufacturer. The number of these shops will only increase as hybrids and EVs become more popular. I even see Priuses in U pick n Pull yards, now! Minus the battery packs, of course.

In 10-15 years, I predict we will see mass market EV conversion kits. Just like we have turn key fuel injection conversion kits on the market today.
 
#11 ·
My friends drove out to the coast & back in their new Bolt. This is the trip info: 163 miles, with 80 miles left. No hypermiling, going with the flow of traffic. In fact he said they deliberately passed a few other cars. Impressive.
 

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#12 ·
The bolt is great and probably 99% of what the small Tesla will be assuming that thing ever gets built. A real e car from a real car company, yet people arent yet hammering down the doors to buy one...hmmm.

I suspect a proper e golf will do well. Typical stubborn vw buyers with think electric is utter garbage at first, then two years down the road they will buy one, at which point everyone not buying an e-vw will be an idiot to them.
 
#13 ·
The range on the 2017 eGolf improved to 124 miles, from 83 or something like that. But there are dozens of leftover 2016 eGolfs sitting on dealer lots in OR & WA. Looks like VW hasn't actually released the '17.
 
#19 ·
The big obstacle to wide-range acceptance (and market) for EVs is the combination of range AND recharge time. If your fossil-fuel car can only go 150 miles on a tank, in 10 minutes you can fill it up and get another 150 miles, so short range is not a big obstacle. Even the Tesla fanboys reluctantly acknowledge that although their $150k P100 can go 300 miles on a charge (woo-hoo!), at the end of that 300 miles they have to sit for at least an hour at a supercharger station to get another 300 miles (boo-hoo). Until EVs can solve the range/recharge time obstacle, they will be limited to people's 2nd, short-range commuter car.

Now, one way to solve the range/recharge time obstacle is hybrids, but that adds complexity (and cost). And that brings us back to ICE, and specifically diesel ICE to reduce fuel consumption and carbon emissions.
 
#15 ·
I agree, once they get the e-golf over 200 or 250 miles of normal driving, then it'll be for real. I'd certainly buy one for commuting with that range.

83 mile range is ok, but really restricts things to urban buyers (who typically have no facilities to plug in due to street parking), so I'm not sure who it would really appeal to.
 
#16 ·
83 mile range is ok, but really restricts things to urban buyers (who typically have no facilities to plug in due to street parking), so I'm not sure who it would really appeal to.
I need a electric range of at least 200 also. How about this? >:)
 

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#20 ·
You could put a wind turbine on top of the car so the faster you went the more power you would generate?

BeemermikeTX you guys are getting ripped of with the "solar capacity factor of 0.145" is that an average for 12 months?

They have a solar car race here from Darwin to Adelaide, the cars average over 90kph on only solar energy.
 
#21 ·
BeemermikeTX you guys are getting ripped of with the "solar capacity factor of 0.145" is that an average for 12 months?
Ask Solandri.

They have a solar car race here from Darwin to Adelaide, the cars average over 90kph on only solar energy.
Which, of course, are not real cars that real people can use in the real world. :wink2:
 
#22 ·
A quick 80% charge on many EVs is only 30 minutes with a Level III charger. That's enough time to go inside for a bathroom break, have a bite to eat, walk around the parking lot to stretch your legs after 300 miles, check your text messages and update your Facebook status and add a photo of your EV charging to Instagram.

EV's are fast becoming mainstream. Hybrids have already led the way. There are more hybrids out there than most realize, because they look just like their fossil fuel only counterparts.

I look forward to the day when I can mail order an EV conversion kit for my ICE powered Jeep. It's coming soon!! :- )
 
#23 ·
A quick 80% charge on many EVs is only 30 minutes with a Level III charger. That's enough time to go inside for a bathroom break, have a bite to eat, walk around the parking lot to stretch your legs after 300 miles, check your text messages and update your Facebook status and add a photo of your EV charging to Instagram.
But a full charge takes at least an hour, and if you're not ready to eat then you're standing around killing time when you could be traveling. And most EVs don't go 300 miles.
 
#25 ·
Actually, the question is will people change their driving habits to match what EVs deliver . . . and will they see that as "moving forward". If car buyers don't see EVs as a net positive over ICEs, and are willing to change their driving habits to match EVs, then they won't buy EVs, and they won't need to change their driving habits.
 
#26 ·
Folks will make their choices based on what is available and meets THEIR needs. If Grandma is 350 mi away and they often want to drive a car full of their kids to Grandma's they will NOT be choosing an EV with a 200 mi effective range and a half hour or more recharge time. Not if a Touareg is available with 600 mi range and the ability to get there nd back without long stops. "ARE WE THERE YET?" Been there, done that!
 
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#35 ·
IF (it's a big if) people are purchasing EVs for the carbon footprint, all they are doing is outsourcing the carbon. Like when the Germans decided they didn't like Nuclear, so dismantled the Nuclear Plants and rebuilt them in Romania...and continued to use nuclear electricity. Out of sight, out of mind. Basically, the carbon use and loss over generation and delivery, the mining process for the materials of the batteries (I've seen the child labor in person), and free public outlets are more than enough to turn my nose at the current EV market. However, I'm not 100% convinced of the carbon scare anyway. Water vapor has more to do with...never mind.

However...in cities like Prague, Paris, NY City, London and the sorts are great examples of markets for an electric city car. I have friends that use EVs 75% of the time traveling about the city and have an Audi A6 in the garage for long range trips. They have their place, I just don't like the implied moral high ground the arguments start from.
 
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#38 ·
Car and Driver took a couple road trips with their Model S P85D. Sounds hard:

http://blog.caranddriver.com/alexan...o-good-very-bad-tesla-model-s-p85d-road-trip/

http://blog.caranddriver.com/alexan...rible-very-good-tesla-model-s-p85d-road-trip/

I imagine this was what it was like in the 1930s driving from Chicago to LA, only with less technology to trick you into running out of energy in the middle of nowhere. That there is a learning curve to climb with EVs means to me my days of owning an EV as my do-everything vehicle at still many years off.
 
#44 ·
#45 ·
My friend with the Bolt got one of these Clipper Creek Level 2 chargers and installed it himself. $565.

https://store.clippercreek.com/featured/hcs-40-hcs-40p-ev-charging-station
So was that installed cost or just purchase price? Did they already have the dedicated 40A circuit in place before install?

This would be a good option in, say, high density condo housing because you could go in with a neighbor or two and split the cost via controlled key-enabled access. But then you have to work out who gets the charger at night if both of you need it. Who's going to wake up at 2am to swap between cars?

A study in neo-communism, perhaps.
 
#51 ·
Let me see if I can assemble my thoughts on ICE, hybrids, and EVs.

In the beginning there was internal combustion. What a great technology! A series of precisely-controlled explosions of highly refined flammable petroleum-based liquids, generating power and propelling you in your own personal vehicle to your destination on your schedule.

Fast forward about 100 years. Internal combustion! What a great technology! We've had 100 years to continue refining the technology. Those series of controlled explosions are more precisely-controlled now than ever before. A series of precisely-controlled explosions of highly refined flammable petroleum-based liquids, generating power and propelling you in your own personal vehicle to you destination on your schedule.

Maybe spewing some misc noxious gasses along the way.

Not much has really changed. But we realize there's not an infinite supply of fuel for ICE. Plus the pollution issues.

Would society as a whole benefit in the long run if we can transition from ICE to hybrids and EVs? It's hard to argue against that. But the cost of that transition is staggering, and changing driver habits and prejudices is difficult. You can't sell a Bolt EV for its actual manufacturing cost. So you offer tax credits and utility rebates and credits to make EV appear less costly. More EVs are seeded into the market, more buyers like, more are sold, unit production costs fall, eventually you can drop the subsidies. And eventually EVs are the accepted norm.

Isn't that basically how it's supposed to go down?
 
#55 ·
Re: recharge time,

firstly the probable target for EV's is commuters and other low mileage applications, Most people travel only 50 to 100km per day well within the range of current EV's
At this stage of development nobody would consider taking a road trip cross country in an EV towing a 3 tone trailer.
However we have charging stations appearing on our highways, they are located at cafe's and restaurants, you plug in and get a brew or a feed.
It's not the wham bam get your petrol and some horrible greasy muck at insult prices that gas stations offer.

Pretty soon EV's will be everywhere.

Solandri "But hydrogen fuel cells are very interesting because they can potentially hit 90% efficiency. 60%-70% is more common" but first you need to make the Hydrogen, that takes the efficiency down to 25%
 
#56 ·
firstly the probable target for EV's is commuters and other low mileage applications, Most people travel only 50 to 100km per day well within the range of current EV's
^ This. Except for adventuresome types and committed greenies, most people will not venture off on a trip that is beyond the range of their EV if it means they have to stop somewhere for an hour in order to continue on their trip or to get back home.

So that means we don't need to spend much time and effort to build on-highway supercharger stations, because they will not get much use. As for "in town" charging stations, the best place for those will be locations where EV drivers already intend to remain for at least 30 minutes to an hour, such as business locations like shopping malls/areas and restaurants, and parking areas for employees. This would mean that businesses have a financial incentive to pay to install charging stations in order to attract customers, and employers have an incentive to provide a benefit to their employees (and the employer could also get emissions credits).
 
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