Sway control without weight distribution - Page 3 - Club Touareg Forums
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post #21 of 79 Old 02-04-2010
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Interesting response from Andy, but I give it zero credit.

1st off a Touareg should never tow anything that is 34' in length..26' would be the max. You can go to the Ford website and look up their towing white-papers (written by Ford engineers) describing and establishing the correct trailer length length to wheelbase relationship.

Second, anyone who has ever been near the factory Westfalia hitch knows the thing is overbuilt..hell its twice as thick as the hitch on my F250 (and that hitch is designed to pull 12,500#, with a tongue weigh capacity of 1250#). The thought of jimmy rigging some bar on the VW hitch is ridiculous...

Third, the max tongue weight (regardless of if a WD system is used or not) is 616lbs, You CANNOT tow a 1000# tongue weight trailer with a Touareg. Max is 616 as per the factory.

Fouth, you can't use an EAZ lift 1000 as it is able to apply too much leverage to the tongue (1000#) since the hitch is designed for 616 max, you are exceeding this capacity. I use an EAZ lift 750 setup on my V8, and it was used to counter a 600# tounge weight on my Jayco 25.

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post #22 of 79 Old 02-04-2010
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Here are my two most recent setups...my Treg V8 towing the Jayco 25Z. Steel springs, EAZ lift 750 setup w/friction anti sway, >6000#weight and 600# measured tongue weight loaded up for a week of travel, >20,000 miles on this

second is my Ford towing my Cougar 304 BHS, >10,000lbs , 33' in length, 1000#-1100# tongue weight (depending on load). No WD system used, friction anti-sway.

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post #23 of 79 Old 02-04-2010 Thread Starter
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Hey Nick,

Nice travel trailers.

I'm glad Andy gave his opinions. You both know more than I. Alas, unless VW comes through with a real answer (holding breath), it all comes back to opinion and experiences. I still hope ProPride and/or Husky come back with something.

It would be intersting if some of the people rigged up by Andy offered their experiences with those setups. Thus far I have not come across any real world reports of weight distribution systems damaging or ripping off of Touareg hitches. Actually, I haven't seen any real towing complaints or issues about the Touareg.

I believe Andy attempted to send pictures of the center bar he was speaking of so perhaps we'll get a chance to see what it entails.

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post #24 of 79 Old 02-04-2010
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Back in 2004 when I first started towing with the Touareg and there was nobody around who could help, this is the resource I found very valueable. There is a wealth of info in here...

RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) on the Open Roads Forum

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post #25 of 79 Old 02-08-2010 Thread Starter
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Thanks for the link Nick.

Can someone post a picture from their Touareg of the reference to weight distribution on their hitch please.

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post #26 of 79 Old 02-09-2010 Thread Starter
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Amazing what one will find if one looks for themselves. I was under the assumption only earlier Touaregs had the towing stickers. However, I was wrong.
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post #27 of 79 Old 03-05-2010 Thread Starter
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Well, I wished I had something significantly more and better to report.

After significant time, phoning, and emailing I have gotten absolutely nowhere. The simple fact is that regardless of reasoning, VW will not expend any resources justifying or expanding on their statement in their owner’s manual regarding weight distribution. Further, VW acknowledged there may be a grey area between their owner’s manual and experienced recommended towing safety options. VW could not or would not provide an opinion or option for sway control although they did say sway control was acceptable. Beyond the owner’s manual VW said they, “do not recommend” using a weight distribution system and that recommending infers that an owner “can” do anything they want with a vehicle. Whether or not doing anything with is within warrant and safety is another thing.
From a towing/trailering supplier stand point I believe it comes down to “cover thy assets” rather than providing demonstrated evidence. My primary hitch choice came back with an unfounded statement that their hitch is not a good match for the Touareg. Others just simply have not responded.
I even started looking up and researching lever physics to understand why VW is against a weight distribution system. Here’s the problem, depending on the weight distribution system used and the person using it, the weight distribution system has the ability to produce considerable forces beyond what I would believe to be acceptable tolerances (and by considerable I mean multiples of acceptable spec). However, as I personally wanted the “active sway control” that comes integrated with some better weight distribution systems and I do not need weight distribution, I still believe a weight distribution system that would allow a user to fine-tune the counter force of the weight distribution system should be able to stay within the tolerances (acceptable forces).

That is, generally levers produce calculable force ratios, if one correctly calculates and understands the ratio and measures the force applied correctly, one should be able to safely stay within Touareg specifications. For instance, let’s say the Touareg has a tongue weight capable of 700lbs (to round numbers). For simplicity, VW cleverly specifies and designs the hitch ball to have a equal fulcrum distance from hitch and attachment point meaning there is no leverage per se (or rather 1 to 1). Therefore, 700lbs tongue weight = 700lbs of force on the attachment point. Now if we change the ratio (that is the distance to the fulcrum) to a distance or ratio of 7 to 1 by adding a weight distribution system it means that for every lb of force exerted on the weight distribution bars equals 7 lbs of force at the attachment point. A conscientious person would know that if they carefully apply only 100 lbs of force through the weight distribution system it will equal 700 lbs force at the attachment point – not only is this within specified tolerances but this would actually leave the attachment point at a lever force equilibrium point. That is, the 700 lbs of tongue weight force acting on the attachment point would be equally counterbalanced by the opposing 700 lbs of force applied by the weight distribution system. This is not to say the weight distribution system has leveled the vehicle (countered the tongue weight). It has only countered 100 lbs of tongue weight. Because at the lever force equilibrium point the lever forces cancel each other, only horizontal forces (pulling and pushing - accelerating and decelerating) and vertical (up and down - tongue weight) would remain. I believe this would be a good thing. Because the hitch is vertically bolted on to the Touareg, the hitch is best suited to handle horizontal and vertical forces (not lever forces). All of that theory being said, putting the full (imprudent) counter balancing force of 700 lbs (equaling tongue weight) through the weight distribution system to level out the vehicle would equal 4900 lbs of force at the attachment point (yikes!).
If there’s someone out there that would like to model this with me, I would absolutely welcome the challenge. In fact I have started a model within excel to calculate Touareg specific towing forces. I would still be open to providing an opinion/use at your own risk calculated procedure/set up for certain better weight distribution systems with “active sway control”.

But for now I will simply tow my trailer in the void between VW’s owner’s manual and available safety options knowing that I made every attempt to ensure the safety of my family to the best of my ability but unsatisfied that I believe there is a better, safer answer out there.
On a side note I am awaiting my new hitch sticker from VW stating that my vehicle is capable of a 770 lb tongue weight. I will post a picture if/when it arrives. The question is, the Touareg can tow a 7700 lb trailer with a tongue weight but should it tow that much? Will the Touareg carry the same tow rating with new tow rating standard coming out?

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post #28 of 79 Old 03-05-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devoman View Post
I have one of Seans hitches and all I can say is that I can really tell a difference from my previous equalizer hitch.I have only towed it about 3000+ miles in the last 4 months.
I have played with the W/D and done some of my own testing.(I have Air in mine.)It seems that it does not or really so far in all these miles have not had any conflicts with the Air.
Here are a few pics.(Note that these were when I finished putting it together.I have tweeked things better since these picture were made.)
Also I did have a V6 Touareg and pulled a 19' Bambi without air on the vehicle and used the Equalizer hitch.I had to use the tool to get the bars on and never had a problem with sway .
Is that bad boy a 25? Maybe I too should buy a 25 but am worried about the "over tongue weight" especially since I will be towing all up and down the Rockies and such... :-\

John "JFScheck" Scheck
TV = '11 F-350 King Ranch 6.7L 4x4 SB SRW - Forrest Green & Chaparral Leather
TT = '11 30 Classic Limited - Praline Leather & Hickory Wood
Hitch = ProPride "Pivot Point Projection" (3P) Hitch

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post #29 of 79 Old 03-05-2010
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Size

Yes.It is a 25'SS Safari.I noticed you also have a V10.That thing will pull with no problem at all.The V6 is stronger than mine also.

2005 fully load V8 Touareg
2005 25'SS Airstream

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post #30 of 79 Old 03-05-2010
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Nope - its a V6 TDI - so same as your V8 (well - maybe a wee bit more torque but...)

If you don't mind - do any mountain towing and what which tow device are you using? How is it when the big rigs go by?

I really, really, really want the 25' Flying Cloud (the new name for the Safari) vice the 23' but am afraid that of going over the hitch weight (840 lbs vice the hitch rating of 770lbs)....

John "JFScheck" Scheck
TV = '11 F-350 King Ranch 6.7L 4x4 SB SRW - Forrest Green & Chaparral Leather
TT = '11 30 Classic Limited - Praline Leather & Hickory Wood
Hitch = ProPride "Pivot Point Projection" (3P) Hitch

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