Brake Pad Warning, how long do I have? - Page 2 - Club Touareg Forums
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post #11 of 35 Old 07-30-2010
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No pixie dust, just smart maintenance..

Quote:
Originally Posted by BonesNTX View Post
I just did one of our Touaregs brakes after about 4,500 miles after the warning came on. Lot's of shoe thickness still left.
You can easily get RAYBESTOS or WAGNER shoes most everywhere for reasonable $.

As well, I am now thouroughly convinced I will have my rotors turned on our other Touareg instead of the so popular "Replace the rotors" every time. Measured mine and had adequate thickness still but they were replaced.

They are just rotors with lots of metal/overall thickness available for turning and new pad install...Kind of like doing a brake job.
The worst thing that could happen after turning them is eventually they could (but won't on just one turning) warp and cause some feedback in the steering wheel = Get new rotors then.

I have removed the PIXIE Dust at least at my house for our Touaregs regarding this "Replace the rotors" every 40K miles falacy.
Good luck to you!

You don't get it - it's not about how they look to your untrained eye, it's all about how they've been engineered, composited, and mated to a system. When the pads are fully worn, the rotors as provided original equipment will be fully worn also. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

These rotors are made of high-carbon iron, they wear apace of the pad material, this is part of the engineered design to provide a best co-efficient of friction... Telling others to ignore council far more learned is a mistake, possibly one you can live with, but not one to pass on to others. If you want to drive around with rotors below legal minimum specs, maybe you can feel good about this, but there are downsides and repercussive outcomes you are not qualified to suggest to others as if you somehow know best. You may be able to live with what you are comfortable with, ...until you find out otherwise. Having to change rotors mid cycle is not only a hassle, it's counterproductive. Not everyone welcomes the challenge to take their truck apart, more than necessary!

For the rest of the herd, following the engineered standards is not only a good idea, but also a safe practice. When you try to apply a second set of pads to a fully utilized rotor, you wear it down another mm or so, and it's structure is not designed to accept all the thermal load or shock it can see in it's duty cycle. Remember, these are high performance vehicles with world-class brakes, engineered as such for a reason.

It is irresponsible to recommend others follow you off the "cliff" or into the "sea".

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post #12 of 35 Old 08-01-2010
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Just wanted to add something on brake life of my 2004 V10... I bought it with 19k Miles from Salt Lake City (on the MFI, I changed it to KM's instead of Miles)... So far, I'm at 97,000km, and I belive I'm still on the original factory brakes!!! Though, I do drive a lot, but brake very moderately / cruise to the light whenever possible... I've read a lot of posts of people needing to replace brakes so much sooner than me (I have about 1 mm left before the sensors start touching the rotors on the front)... Has anyone else had their brakes last this long?!?

Btw: I don't tow anything (no hitch yet), but sometimes do carry about 100lbs of cargo, or perhaps a passenger or two, I primarily drive alone most of the time, and my little 10lb dog comes with me!

Geoff, I'll be hitting you up to make a shipment to Canada when the time comes... Thanks again for all your insight, and great service you are doing for us.
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post #13 of 35 Old 08-02-2010
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Remember it also depends on how often you use your brakes while driving and the type of road you travel on has a big influence. I do a 65km one way daily commute with my Jetta (130km a day) but it's mainly on highways. The number of times I have my foot on the brake would be a lot less than someone who's done the same mileage in city traffic, for instance.

If I had to do this commute with my Treg I could easily see myself getting 100,000km out of a set of pads.

Relocated to Aus. Starting fresh.
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post #14 of 35 Old 08-02-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QPower1 View Post
Good luck to you!

You don't get it - it's not about how they look to your untrained eye, it's all about how they've been engineered, composited, and mated to a system. When the pads are fully worn, the rotors as provided original equipment will be fully worn also. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

These rotors are made of high-carbon iron, they wear apace of the pad material, this is part of the engineered design to provide a best co-efficient of friction... Telling others to ignore council far more learned is a mistake, possibly one you can live with, but not one to pass on to others. If you want to drive around with rotors below legal minimum specs, maybe you can feel good about this, but there are downsides and repercussive outcomes you are not qualified to suggest to others as if you somehow know best. You may be able to live with what you are comfortable with, ...until you find out otherwise. Having to change rotors mid cycle is not only a hassle, it's counterproductive. Not everyone welcomes the challenge to take their truck apart, more than necessary!

For the rest of the herd, following the engineered standards is not only a good idea, but also a safe practice. When you try to apply a second set of pads to a fully utilized rotor, you wear it down another mm or so, and it's structure is not designed to accept all the thermal load or shock it can see in it's duty cycle. Remember, these are high performance vehicles with world-class brakes, engineered as such for a reason.

It is irresponsible to recommend others follow you off the "cliff" or into the "sea".
I only cited what I am doing and did not advise anyone to do it as you have suggested.

Rotors are customarily turned til miniimum thickness is reached and that is the lifespan.

You sell brakes, I do not and therfore have sought alternatives.
You Geoff are far more an expert than I could ever attempt.

As far as going to the sea...I have a boat.
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post #15 of 35 Old 08-02-2010
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Im almost at 80K MILES on my Original pads and rotors. I might change them after I change my timing belt...LMAO. Im gonna see if they last until 90k or so. And BTW, Im not running stock wheels. Im running a heavy 75lb per corner wheel setup so brake component life is drastically reduced and the Dub still stops on a dime.....

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post #16 of 35 Old 08-05-2010
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80K and going...Wow.

Maybe It's those HEAVY Wheels that are aiding your stops therfore reducing brake wear!
LMAO!!!
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post #17 of 35 Old 08-05-2010
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I'm at 75k on original brakes and plenty of pad left. Stock wheels as well. Don't mind doing brake work but not looking forward to shelling out the $$ for the parts. Not that I won't - just starting to look at timing belt, probably a prop shaft (no sign of failure yet, but I am nearing the anecdotal life expectancy of it). Gotta pay to play....

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post #18 of 35 Old 08-07-2010
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That's pretty decent for over 70-80K miles on Green Egg and 1BadAssT-Rex's. I'm not sure if the brake pad material changed since then (Green Egg, Rex let us know who made those pads!). But I don't know if these 2007 Pagids will even make 40K miles. I doubt it.

I like the Pagid/Brembo braking power there is no question. But on a 5000 lb SUV I just want them to last longer. After going over various pads/rotors I think I'll settle on Hawk LTS and Zimmermann. Hawk is not German TUV certified that I know of, but if they help stop Caterpillars, Boeing jets and main battle tanks that's good enough for me, at least on the next set.

nltomba seems to be happy with his LTS setup. I'll see if my < 40K miles will turn into > 80K miles like he did with the setup.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Egg View Post
I'm at 75k on original brakes and plenty of pad left. Stock wheels as well. Don't mind doing brake work but not looking forward to shelling out the $$ for the parts. Not that I won't - just starting to look at timing belt, probably a prop shaft (no sign of failure yet, but I am nearing the anecdotal life expectancy of it). Gotta pay to play....
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post #19 of 35 Old 08-07-2010
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When used with European pads, I would think the rotors are continuously "turned" by the 2% silicone carbide content. (See Zegm's excellent explanation in message #25 of PAGID Brake Pads

Do Euro pads/rotors therefore completely eliminate rotor thickness variation (often mistaken for and called "warped rotors")? I'd have to ask Zegm, but I would think so. And if so I don't think you even need to turn them because they already were!!

Right, rotors are not discarded unless they're expected to drop below minimum thickness before the next pad change. So if your pads (whatever brand) don't wear them down as much then you can reuse the rotors as long as they meet other criteria such as thickness variation, runout, scoring, etc).




Quote:
Originally Posted by BonesNTX View Post
Rotors are customarily turned til miniimum thickness is reached and that is the lifespan.
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post #20 of 35 Old 08-07-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QPower1 View Post
Good luck to you!

You don't get it - it's not about how they look to your untrained eye, it's all about how they've been engineered, composited, and mated to a system. When the pads are fully worn, the rotors as provided original equipment will be fully worn also. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

These rotors are made of high-carbon iron, they wear apace of the pad material, this is part of the engineered design to provide a best co-efficient of friction... Telling others to ignore council far more learned is a mistake, possibly one you can live with, but not one to pass on to others. If you want to drive around with rotors below legal minimum specs, maybe you can feel good about this, but there are downsides and repercussive outcomes you are not qualified to suggest to others as if you somehow know best. You may be able to live with what you are comfortable with, ...until you find out otherwise. Having to change rotors mid cycle is not only a hassle, it's counterproductive. Not everyone welcomes the challenge to take their truck apart, more than necessary!

For the rest of the herd, following the engineered standards is not only a good idea, but also a safe practice. When you try to apply a second set of pads to a fully utilized rotor, you wear it down another mm or so, and it's structure is not designed to accept all the thermal load or shock it can see in it's duty cycle. Remember, these are high performance vehicles with world-class brakes, engineered as such for a reason.

It is irresponsible to recommend others follow you off the "cliff" or into the "sea".
Not to bust your bubble but having been responsible for a couple of Euro brake lines and having been trained by some Jurid brake engineers (I am a mechanical engineer with over 15 years of auto design and manufacturing experience), it is NOT common practice to have one set of pads wear out the rotors on Euro Cars. Typically it will take 2 to 3 sets, BUT!!!! My point is that only by measuring the rotors do you really know!
NOW, My own opinion, I am on my second set of pads with my original rotors. Having driven BMWs, Opels, Porsches for over 30 years I will only put OEM pads on them (even when I owned a Chevy Silverado) and Never did I have a rotor failure or brake failure. Keep in mind safety factors, if someone runs their rotor .001 below minimums and you expect this to be critical then you aren't aware of the DFMEAs and the PFMEAs that the factorys do on their products. One of the biggest problems with thin rotors is over travel of the caliber piston, and not that HUGE heavy duty rotor on a Touareg. But again you really have to abuse these systems before you see a failure they are NOT delicate! But Again when in doubt measure and see if it is below the mins. It will take a little more time for the next set of pads to match the profile of the worn rotor but they will!!!! But I be danged if I am going to listen to the dealer or someone like that who tells me what I need to do, especially when they wanted 1200 bucks to change my pads. I spent 190 dollars for front and rear Textars and spent about 2 hours. And the V-10 has been stopping on a dime! Oh and I did this a year ago!

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