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Kessy system troubleshooting

23K views 37 replies 15 participants last post by  Akron04 
#1 ·
I have an 04 V8. I have had the vehicle for about 7 months now. When I bought it the battery would die when I locked it overnight. I did the Kessy repair (replace the 2 mosfets and 6 resistors) and it solved the problem. However, I live in North Dakota and if it would get below -10 I would need to jump the battery because it was a weak battery from all of the draining. When I would jump it, it would cause the Kessy to fail again and I would need to do the repair again. Finally I changed the battery and fixed the Kessy at the same time and life was good for about 3 months. Recently as I would drive the screen by the speedometer would tell me to move the shift selector to "P" while I was driving. Everything drove normal so I just figured it was another glitch with the electrical system and I ignored it for a while. Now the battery is dying again but the Kessy is still working (doors open when I have the key in my pocket and I open the handle - which it wouldn't do before when the Kessy was draining the battery). I have done some research on the "move selector to P" problem and it appears that you are supposed to change the 4 door handles because the antennas are shorting out. I however, suspect the antennas in the rear bumper to be the problem because the rear door doesn't always open when I have the key in my pocket and try to open it (it seems to work intermittently). I also have gotten this code on more than one occasion when I scan it with the Vagcom...
00181 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna (in Rear bumper) (R136)
011 - Open Circuit


...Right now the car is draining the battery even when it is not locked. I have decided I am going to pull the antennas out of the rear bumper and let it sit for a couple days to see if the battery drains, with the thought that if the antennas are removed they can't draw current and if the battery stops draining with them out then I have found the problem.



Is that logic correct, is this a way to effectively troubleshoot to narrow down which antenna is causing the problems?



If it doesn't stop with those pulled I was going to do one door handle at a time and monitor the draw



Has anyone ever replaced the rear antennas? I have the part number off the antennas themselves and they don't appear to be available anywhere. I guess I'll call the dealer tomorrow and see what they say, but I can't imagine that you can't get them anywhere.



Any other ideas to narrow down the problem?



Have the Kessy modules been updated at all? If I buy a new one and have the dealer program it will it be more reliable? This whole problem is pushing me to the brink of selling the car and I am a huge VW person so this would hurt my pride a bit if I did :(



Thanks.
 
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#2 ·
Well, I wish I knew more about the Kessy system. At first, I thought it might have something to do with your ignition, but it really sounds like you are on the right track when you said this:

"I however, suspect the antennas in the rear bumper to be the problem because the rear door doesn't always open when I have the key in my pocket and try to open it (it seems to work intermittently). I also have gotten this code on more than one occasion when I scan it with the Vagcom...
00181 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna (in Rear bumper) (R136)
011 - Open Circuit"

I have heard that the Touareg will drain the battery if not locked, and battery-wise, you are safer locking it.

I hope this was the root problem, maybe this antenna was burning up the kessy, and eventually killing the battery. Don't give up yet. I bet it's something small, just super frustrating.

Also, I think using a multimeter to monitor voltage is a good idea to see what is draining, but if you look around on this forum, you might find specifics about what voltages to expect at what times. I think it goes into sleep mode after so many minutes of being locked. Your diagnosing procedure might involve a stopwatch/timer and a multimeter.


What is the part number of your actual Kessy Module?
Then call dealer or look online to see if their is a Superseding part number. A superseding part number would prove an updated version exists. 'Might want to do this for the part numbers on the antennae too.

What are the part numbers of your suspect antennae, and your actual kessy? Has the car ever been in a wreck or received damage or repairs in that area? (Look for: impact/water/shoddy labor/insufficient materials/parts installed). Also check alignment gaps around body panels in that area (rear hatch/bumper/strike plates/catches, rubbing, etc) maybe the rear hatch isn't closing correctly?
 
#3 ·
Thanks for the info. When I repaired the Kessy the last time I was using a multimeter to determine the amp draw from the whole vehicle and I would leave the window open so I could reach down and do what I needed to do with the car locked. It was interesting to see the draw before and after the repair. I don't remember the numbers but I knew once it was fixed, the draw definitely went away and it only took about 2 minutes for the draw to fall off completely. Since then I have installed a digital voltmeter/ammeter. Unfortunately the ammeter doesn't work but I can leave the window open and plug in the voltmeter without having to open a door or unlock and I can then see what the volts are on the battery (I normally leave it unplugged so it won't drain the battery itself).

I don't know what the Kessy part number is. I'd need to pull it down to check. As for the antennas in the back they are original VW parts. They have the logo and everything on them. I left them in my garage right now so I don't have the number handy but they are legit. According to the Carfax report the vehicle did get into an accident a few years back, but I can't tell where the repairs were made. Whomever did the work did it perfectly because everything looks and fits like it is new. The rear door seems like it is closing just fine.

I'll give an update tomorrow night after I call the dealer for the availability of the antennas and after a 24 hour draw on the battery.
 
#4 ·
Ok. Really sounds like you are on the right track. When I went to replace my front differential, I fount that I could buy the new part number for that part. Both parts were VW legit, original 2004 part number had been superseded with an improved replacement since then and is less likely to fail in the same manner as there original.

The part numbers would be a good start, and if it had been in a wreck, the internals like wiring could have been improperly replaced or "fixed". Mine was in a wreck too. they jimmy rigged everything but the body panels. Insurance companies very seldom pay high dollar mechanics or dealerships to do the repair work. Normally the lowest bidder does it. I am still finding screw ups under the skin from insurance claim work done in the past, however, my front and rear bumpers look great, 'just wish my headlight, windshield wipers, various wire harnesses, rain and light sensor, headlight trays, and fog lights were reinstalled correctly. I blow a fuse every time I hit the high beams (still can't get an inspection sticker).

I don't know if that's the case with yours. But i would start with part numbers and keep on track with the plan you laid out in your original post. Keep us updated. best of luck to you.
 
#5 ·
Hi,
I have 4x T-regs for R&D, each of which I picked up with immo problems at auctions, etc. I have found several common things to drain power, 1st is the door switch/mechanism needs to know when door is opened or closed. Simple check here. Fault codes will reveal this problem. The kessy won't sleep if the hard switches in the door latch are not working. I have replaced 3x door switches and fixed this.

Another problem I found was the convenience module would keep powered up when something like steering wheel motor, or seatbelt retractor motor would not respond. Easy fix is to make sure small push-button on left side of steering column is out and driver device memory functions are off when entering and exiting car.

Here is a link to some other info I posted already:

http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f43/help-kessy-killing-dash-display-86804.html#post417397

http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f...nt-draw-battery-drain-69872-2.html#post769729

Never had one I couldn't fix even when the dealer couldn't fix it.

Jeff
 
#6 ·
2 volts lost in 24 hours so it doesn't appear that the rear antennas were it.

jsrmonster thanks for the info. I am going to look into the drivers side door switch/antenna next. In the winter when it was below 30 the car had a hard time recognizing that they driver's side door was open. If I'd open the door very slowly it would prime the fuel pump, show the door open on the display, and turn on the interior lights, but if I did it quick it wouldn't see it. Once it started warming up it worked fine so I put the problem off. So, with that being said, I am going to tear into this tonight and see what I can find.

When I scan the car though I don't get error codes for the door like you mention and with the warmer temperatures the car seems to be spot on for knowing when the door is open and/or closed so we'll have to see what I find.

I have never let a problem with a car defeat me and I guess I won't let this be the first. I still got a hell of deal on it and I don't want anything else that is comparable so I guess I better not give up on it. I just don't want to invest all of this time on it just to have more of these problems show up every couple of months.
 
#7 ·
jsrmonster (Jeff),

That was an inspiring post. Sounds like you have a ton of knowledge and experience with these vehicles. thanks for contributing to the forum.


epetes,

Let us know what you uncover and sometimes I wonder if maybe it has something to do with the door sagging?

My Treg always thinks the drivers door is shut (since before I bought it used), it sags 1/4-inch and sometimes if it is "only latched" (not closed all the way) and I press out on the door from the driver's seat, it registers and behaves as if I just opened the door. also, sometimes if I get out super fast, just rip the key from the ignition and jump out, the seat moves up and the mirrors aim all over the place. Additionally, the passenger mirror, which I leave in "R" position so it will help me when backing up, goes back to a different place most days. there might be a setting in the MFI that can be changed to fix this, i do use more than one key to drive it, depending on which fey fob I grab on my way to the car. I'd like to see your VCDS autoscan.

Check out this thread and see if it could have something to do with that sensor only working intermittently:

http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f43/how-to-fix-sagging-driver-door-82740.html


Can you please post the VCDS scan for us to see and compare?
 
#9 ·
I didn't really have any time to work on it tonight. So, I'll have to scan and post tomorrow. I ended up deleting the codes before I started all of this because of all the low voltage codes I got from the dead battery. But I have driven it a little bit since then so I could get somewhat of a valid scan.

The good news is I think I have narrowed down my problem. Last night I removed the driver's seat so that I could hook up my multimeter as an ammeter and so I could get a more detailed voltage reading directly from the battery. I also ended up pulling the drivers side door panel off and pulled the plug going to the door handle and the lock mechanism (I think that's what it's called). When I would check the draw after about 2 minutes I was still drawing about .6 amps. I then pulled the fuse for the Kessy and the draw stayed right at .6. After that I put the fuse back in and hooked the battery back up to it's normal configuration, locked it and let it sit undisturbed for the night. When I left for work this morning I checked and it lost about a tenth of a volt. While I was at work (9 hours) it didn't lose anything and it still hasn't since then. I am thinking the tenth of a volt was lost as everything was going to "sleep". Tomorrow I plan on pulling the shell off the inside of the door so that I can access the mechanism and see what is going on with it.

I am definitely pretty excited about getting this problem solved and having some reliability again. Then I can move on to the next project. Since I have decided to keep it I am going to solve all of the little problems that have been bothering me since I bought it (Next is the TPMS) before I start driving it again.

I'll continue to update this thread as I progress.
 
#10 ·
This will be very interesting to see what you find. Good job for really going for it. We'll all be experts with the Kesey system by the end of this.

By the way, I ended up disabling my tpms. 'Sort of lame, and not ideal, but for me, It wasn't worth the brain damage, and the money involved. Maybe next time I replace the tires, I'll replace all four TPMS's and re-enable the module by reinstalling the fuse and VCDS, but it has been really nice not having the ear-piercing beep every time I get in the touareg. You really appreciate that when you achieve it. I still put the key in and cringe for a few seconds, then breath a sigh of relief when it acts like a normal vehicle.

Keep posting back as you take steps and make discoveries.

Also, We still want to see the VCDS autoscan, We could be more helpful if we could see that. Someone might have had this same problem before.
 
#11 ·
It turns out when I thought I disconnected the plug to the door lock and the handle I only ended up unplugging the door lock. So it was not the antenna in the handle. It appears that one (or both) of the microswitches in the door lock mechanism was failing or sticking. They look pretty simple to change and are probably pretty cheap but I decided to just order a whole new mechanism and "freshen" the whole thing up. I might play around with the old one and see about replacing the microswitches just for learning but right now I have too many fish to fry. The new one should arrive next week and I'll put it in and monitor the situation and re-post, but when it's unplugged I have an acceptable current draw so I am pretty sure that this is it.

As for the TPMS, I was just looking around and I think I'll do the same as you and disable it and worry about it when my tires need to be changed. The beep is ridiculous and I can't wait to get rid of it. I can handle checking the pressure manually for a while. Speaking of beeps I think I'll be programming the seat belt beep away tonight.

As for the scan, I'll plan on doing some work on it tonight so I'll scan and post.
 
#13 ·
It looks like I won't be posting my scan. I should have saved the one I did prior to starting all of this. When you scan with the rear antennas removed and the entire drivers side door unplugged you get LOTS of codes. The fact that I've had low voltage from the battery drain doesn't help either. It ended up being a 17 page scan and I don't think it'd be helpful since all of that crap is disconnected so it has a lot of erroneous codes.
 
#14 ·
WOW. That does make sense, now that I gave it a thought.

But your voltage draw is within the spec range, right? (with the door lock mech disconnected)
However, you have multiple things disconnected at this time, so we will see if the problem lies only in the door lock mech assembly for sure.

I still wonder what we would see if we could sift through your VCDS autoscan.
It'd be just like PANNING FOR GOLD. But, It's probably a ridiculous mess of false alarms, and I just can't help thinking, there is a small possibility for a shimmer in the pan, and that would give us something to go off of, but I'm a dreamer. This is why I have never gambled in a casino (more than $10+way too many drinks) or with the lottery. Real life has more than enough action for me. Please post, as your events unfold, and we can't wait for it too be be put back together and re-scaned to see your VCDS results and physical outcome. Until then, you're like an astronaut, and this forum is like Houston.

Do you feel confident enough to re-install the other components (unsuspected antennae, sensors, wiring, and such)?
That would narrow it down in the future, and also, Re-scan at intervals to keep a Date/time-tag for each scan you do, as each component goes in place, save these files. (I just add a capital letter of the Alphabet to the end of each one, or the milage, or the date code.) Scan early and scan often, otherwise we can't be as helpful and you have no breadcrumbs to follow backwards if you get lost.

I really think you are still on the right path. Just keep keeping us posted of your discoveries.
 
#15 ·
The voltage draw does appear to be good. I can't leave the meter hooked up in ammeter mode because it will fall asleep before the car will so it will effectively disconnect the battery when it goes to sleep. So I have only been able to check voltage directly at the battery from time to time and it isn't dropping now so we'll see how it goes once things start to get reconnected.

I do feel comfortable putting things back in but I have ordered a trailer hitch assembly so the back end won't be going back together until then. I will do the frequent scans as things get back to normal. I plan on staying devoted to it until everything is fixed.
 
#16 ·
Hey guys, just joining this thread...

I recently installed an aftermarket trailer hitch and necessary wiring to my new-to-me '05 V8. Of course I had to remove the rear bumper fascia and the actual bumper itself in order to install the hitch. Since then, I have been getting the "Move selector lever to position P" message (when stopped in traffic or at at a traffic light, etc.) and that intermittent clicking sound under the steering wheel dash that others have mentioned.

I remember 2 little "electrical module-looking things" embedded in the foam on each end of the top of the steel bumper. I put them back where they were originally (I think) when I reassembled everything.

Are these the antennae in the rear that you guys are talking about? Could I have done something to damage or disconnect them that would be causing the electrical messages and noises I mentioned above? I didn't think about the timing coincedence until I came across your posts.

Thanks for any thoughts or advice!
 
#17 ·
Those are the antennas. They are solid so I wouldn't think they would be damaged too easy but maybe a connection got dirty or not pushed in all of the way or something along those lines.

I wonder if you could pull them out and drive it around the block to see if your problem goes away. I don't know for sure if it would work. I would try it with mine since I have them out right now waiting for the hitch to show up, but my door is laying in a multiple pieces throughout the garage so I can't help you out at this point.

I would at least start by checking the connections, it could be (and hopefully is) something simple.

FYI, just for future troubleshooting/diagnosing, my problem with the "move selector to P" issue did not have the clicking.
 
#18 ·
Is there a box from china that replaces the kessy and bypasses all the troubles, i saw a bypass one time it would be nice. I had a steering wheel workshop pop up on dash, didn't think it was a big deal , boy was I wrong the car wouldn't start or let you tow it need a whole new steering column , well I got a used one put it in and the kessy would not let it start, put the old one back in and started , great right , what a car
 
#19 ·
The Kessy system sure is a pain. Definitely seems to be the Achilles tendon on these vehicles.

My saga continues. I still won't have the part to fix the door until tomorrow (which is a story in itself) and I am in the middle of changing the timing belt because the dealer that installed it prior to me owning the car put a cover on wrong and it was eating away at the belt, so even when the part arrives it'll be a little while before I have time to put it in.

But, back to the point. I noticed in the middle of last week that my battery had been drained again to about 5 volts (with door disconnected). I charged it back up and checked the draw. With a clamp style ammeter, which seems to be the only way I can figure out to test draw while the car is asleep it was showing 0 draw but it only measures in tenths of an amp. So I just kept checking the voltage and in 40 hours of sitting I lost a tenth of a volt. I pulled the Kessy fuse yesterday and now after 30 hours it lost another .08 volts. So now I have another draw to find, however I am very thankful that it is not on the Kessy circuit. Unfortunately, I think this one is going to be pretty hard to find since it takes the car so long to "sleep" and the draw is so slow.

If anyone has any ideas as to which circuit might be causing the draw now I am open to suggestions.
 
#20 ·
Just did some more research (seems one could read for days on this subject) and found that perhaps at this point my draw is normal (which kind of sucks). So at about 3 full days I've lost .18 volts, meaning after about 2 weeks the car will be unable to start without a charge. I know the draw is less than .1 amps while it's sleeping.
 
#22 ·
Mine was $228 from Rector VW (bought it from them online). I saw it on multiple sites for that price. My dealer sells it for just over $300.

Still working on the install. Spent a good 6 hours today messing with it. I am getting very close throwing all the parts in the car and taking it in to a dealer and trading it in for a Tahoe or something along those lines. Right now the lock works as advertised but when I plug the wires into it then I run into problems. I haven't closed the door yet because I want to make sure it is working before I close it so I can get the door open. If I lock it with everything plugged in then it'll lock. When I unlock it it will unlock (you can see it unlock) but when I pull on the handle (from inside or out) it will not disengage the latch. I'll post the question in another thread but I am about F-ing done with this thing.
 
#23 ·
I was finally able to get the new lock in and working properly. The bad news is that the battery drain is back, although it's at a slower pace but it is not acceptable. I haven't been able to drive it yet to see if the shift to "p" problem has gone away.

I'm thinking at this point that it must be something in the Kessy module itself relating to the driver's door. I may try repairing it yet again but I think I'd rather just get a solar charger and have more reliability.
 
#24 ·
I finally got everything put back together and was able to drive it last night. Prior to driving it I soldered in new MOSFETs in the Kessy. That took care of the battery drain. It brought the drain down to the same as it was with the Kessy fuse pulled. The car drove great and everything worked as advertised. I drove it for 45 minutes last night, and 4 more times today. Then I was driving home from my kids' soccer practice and the message came back - move selector to P. So I guess I didn't take care of that problem. I did clear the scans last night prior to driving so I'll scan it again tonight and see what pops up - what a pain.
 
#25 ·
Found out my right rear door handle button was activated constantly so the Kessy doesn't sleep and it says "move selector to P" because it thinks someone is pushing the button. Learned about it here...
http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f43/diy-testing-and-dissassembling-door-handles-85616.html
...I just cut the wire and I think the problem is solved. I will need to monitor the situation over the next couple of weeks but I think I have finally solved all of the Kessy problems and I must say the car is pretty nice when everything is working properly.
 
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