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Complete bleeding guide (letting or not air in the system)

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40K views 9 replies 7 participants last post by  bizzle  
#1 · (Edited)
My native language is Spanish, so I want try translate this to English as good I can. After some errors and mistakes I commit in the process, this is the resume to my knowledge:

Discard leaks. Press pedal several times and check if the reservoir level go down. Look around the wheels and below car looking for drip and marks.

Checking Master Brake Cylinder:
Disconnect brake lines. Cap outlets. Fill reservoir. Press pedal.
The pedal go down and deep? Bad master brake cylinder, so replace it.
The pedal stop and keep pressure? Master brake cylinder is good. Proceed to bleed the system.

Symptom: large brakes. No instant stop after apply brakes.
Problem: Brake fluid old (must be changed every 2 year) or contaminated.
Solution: flush and refill brake fluid.
Procedure: with a medical syringe, suck all the old brake fluid as you can. Refill and bleed (two person method) each wheel. Now, the MOST important thing nobody mention in any forum or internet is the properly order including the internal and external bleed port (not bleed both ports can result in 90% less brake power or spongy brakes):

This is the sequence with external and internal ports:
  1. Rear Right external port.
  2. Rear Right internal port.
    (Fill brake fluid reservoir)
  3. Rear Left external port.
  4. Rear Left internal port.
    (Fill brake fluid reservoir)
  5. Front Right external port.
  6. Front Right internal port.
    (Fill brake fluid reservoir)
  7. Front Left external port.
  8. Front Left internal port.
    (Fill brake fluid reservoir)

Symptom: Spongy or large pedal. The pedal go deep and don't apply brakes. (this procedures apply too when you letting air in the system).
Problem: air in the system.
Solution: bleed master cylinder; bleed ABS; bleed calipers.

Bleed master cylinder:

This method can be performed mounted on car following this instruction.
  • Fill brake fluid reservoir
  • Disconnect 2 brake lines.
  • Conect a Master Cylinder Bleeder Kit
  • 2 hose to the brake cylinder outlets and the other side (using 2 to 1 adaptor) to the reservoir. Make sure the hose immerse in brake fluid
  • Push pedal slowly halfway, then wait 10 seconds (or wait to see the little air bubbles go almost to the reservoir), then release slowly
  • Repeat until the hose don't show more air bubbles. Each time you can press the pedal deeper.
  • Close reservoir cap
  • Reconnect brake lines quickly trying to avoid let empty the reservoir again. Fill if is necessary

Bleed ABS system (This process can be performed several times, but consume a lot of power from your battery and you can overheat your ABS pump. Try to do no more than 5 times)
  • Set the car level and apply parking brake
  • Fill brake fluid reservoir
  • Connect your car to computer using VAG-COM (this can be performed with LITE version)
  • Click on [03 - ABS Brakes]
  • Click on [Basic Settings - 04]
  • Set on Group 001
  • Click on [Go!]. Then follow instructions. The sequence must be: Press the pedal and hold. The ABS pump is auto activate for 10 seconds. Then release the pedal. Open Front Left External and Front Right External bleed port at the same time (connect the same hose to the Bleeder Kit in both sides with the other side of each hose in a container to avoid shed in floor or on the system). Click "Next-OK". The ABS pump is auto activate for 10 seconds again and bleed brake fluid and air to the bleed ports. Fill brake fluid reservoir again. Push, hold 1 second and release the pedal 10 times. Close the bleed ports and finish the procedure with VAG-COM doing "Done-Go Back".
  • Fill brake fluid reservoir

Bleed calipers (Same explained above. Don't forget external and internal ports)

Consider leaks, caliper/pads problems if any of this procedures fix your problems.


Check this video to understand how perform Master Cylinder Bleeding process.

This video explain the process to bleed the calipers with only 1 bleed port.
.
 
#2 ·
Thanks for the detailed writeup.

The only information I had been able to find on Ross-Tech was that the ABS Basic Function Group 1 action only activates the ABS pump and not the solenoids. http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/absbleeding.html

"This will trigger the ABS pump to turn on for about 10 seconds. You should hear the fairly loud pump clicking during this time."

However, your description suggests that it actually gives you the instructions to open each of the four sets of bleeders and that the correct solenoids are activated to fill the pump circuits and purge the air?

At least the factory manual suggests the factory tool will give step by step instruction to open the four sets of bleeders, however I have not been able to find anything on Ross-Tech about that. Therefore, if the VCDS does it, then that will be good news.

To properly bleed the ABS system, I believe a pressure bleeder capable of 2 Bars of pressure is needed before bleeding the calipers?
 
#3 ·
VCDS procces only can bleed air from ABS. The special tool working under 2 bar is a supplementary process to bleed air from the lines without 2 persons.

The information a give you is a resume from Elsawin (VW reparation manual) and personal experience. I repeat, the rigth procedure is: bleed master cylinder > bleed ABS > bleed lines. In that specific order.

You chose: buy the $3500 VW special machine or do 2 persons method. Both are effective.
 
#4 ·
Thread moved to the Brakes forum. Nice write up!

From what I have been told, the ABS procedure should only be used to bleed the air from the ABS system after either ingesting air from a failed flush or after changing a master cylinder. Would Daniel agree?
 
#6 ·
I have had to change the master cylinder reservoir seals and now I have a ABS and car with wavy lines on the dashboard so I am thinking that the system wasn't bled properly, so going to do that this week. Just need a couple of pints of Brake fluid and a helper. Got the VCDS does sound reasonable that I have these lights up after changing the seals?

Ian
 
#7 ·
Thanks for the write up!

I did mine today with the motive brake bleeder set. 13psi and used two catch bottles. Followed steps of another post and it wasn't horribly dirty but not clean either. At least now it's fresh OEM DOT4 fluid now.
Image
 
#8 ·
Well, I need some help. I've been trying to bleed my brakes all day. I tried to do it by myself and then I drafted my wife into the ordeal for the second half of the evening.

Here's what I did:

I don't have a record of the fluid ever being flushed so I assume the fluid is original. I have a 2013 with 75K and a DSG. I have a Motive bleeder. Various directions said to bring it up to 29psi. I also tried it at 15psi when I started stumbling. I was not able to get any fluid from any of the corners with the Motive alone. This wasn't behaving anything like my old bug or golf wagon, both of which simply flushed with adequate pressure and an open valve. At a certain point, I put pressure on the system with the Motive and added pedal stomping to the equation, which finally expelled fluid but may have also been where it all went catastrophically wrong :( For the past 4 hours my wife has patiently been exercising her calves on the pedal with the Motive completely out of the equation but all I'm getting is air.

I was able to bleed the RR without issue. The fluid that came out of it was nasty confirming my opinion the fluid was original.
When I got to the LR I barely got any from it--around 50-80mL. I got tired of fighting the system and tried to do an ABS bleed. The first part of the problem is that none of the instructions here or anywhere else match what VCDS actually says. I get as far as where everyone says to click on Group 001, but that option doesn't seem to exist. There is a drop-down list, and the first option is referring to bleeding the brakes but Go! simply returns an error to put 1-3 digits into the delay section. Regardless of whether I try 5ms or 120ms I get the following error--incorrect message length or invalid format. There's another bleed/fill option further down the drop-down list, but Go! returns a request for an access code.

The second problem doesn't require any VCDS knowledge. While I was pumping the brakes the entire system seemed to eventually let go and the pedal fell to the floor. I don't know what it was like new, but the pedal travel before I started went to what I now know is about halfway down. I don't remember ever being able to make it go further than that. Now, when I get to where that used to be the pedal seems to catch and then drop all the way to the floor. At first I thought maybe I blew the master cylinder. After a few hours of attempting to bleed the system further, the pedal feel has come back a little stiffer (not what it was before I started) but it can still be pushed completely to the floor (again, that wasn't the case before I started, either). I'm hoping I didn't blow the master cylinder, but if I did I realize I don't seem to know where it is. I don't think it's under the reservoir because that has two rubber hoses on the bottom of it that terminate elsewhere down inside the engine compartment.

The last issue is that no matter what I do am getting air from the bleeder valves. It doesn't matter if I pump the pedal slow or fast, pedal halfway down or all the way to the floor, pedal halfway up or completely released, the bleeder that I crack open will spurt air and not much fluid if any at all (lately it seems I'm not even getting fluid anymore). The reservoir was always kept full. The big issue is I don't understand where all the air entered the system, unless my wife pumped the pedal while I had a valve open and it pulled air into the system...but it seems like a whole lot of air. I think we literally sat on one valve for over an hour pumping, holding, cracking the valve, with nothing but copious bubbles in the catch can each time the pedal is pushed.

I don't have any errors. Yet, I can't turn off the parking brake. The dash instructs me to press the brakes but it won't register when I press them to the floor.

Can someone please tell me where the master cylinder is?
What is the proper procedure with the current version of VCDS?
Does my issue seem like air in the system or a broken master cylinder?
How much air can realistically be in there? If I get air bubbles every time I press the pedal, is that more likely to be caused by other leaks somewhere? I'm not getting fluid on the ground. I was getting more leaks around the engine compartment than I was expecting, but the top of the reservoir had fluid on it so it's difficult to say if a bit dripped off there to the engine bay and spread around or if I actually sprung some kind of leak somewhere.

If I do just have a ridiculous amount of air in the system, what is the quickest way to get it out? The rig isn't drivable now since I can't get it out of park and it wouldn't have any brakes even if I did. I can't park it on a hill assuming that would even help. I can't even imagine where it's all coming from. The reservoir doesn't seem to drain quickly, if at all lately. I alternated between the Motive and stock cap on the reservoir but neither one seemed to create an issue. I even left the stock cap off (fluid open to the air) but I didn't see much movement then either. It just seems like I'm getting only air without any fluid coming to the rears. Then from the fronts I get some sputtering but not much else anymore.

The reservoir is full and it doesn't empty very fast. VCDS isn't working the way the instructions say it should. This is going to be a very long and less than pleasant weekend if I can't get the rig back on the road before we leave out of town (and have to take the family in the golf).


My VCDS looks more like this instead of what the instructions indicate I should be seeing:
 
#10 ·
OK, so long story short...can someone please tell me how to flush the power steering! :p

I do still need help cycling the ABS (probably necessary now) but everything else seems explained now :(

...except I actually uncovered a whole new set of issues. My brake fluid reservoir has no cap! This may sound bizarre, but it seems like there has never even been a cap. It's supposed to have one--I see the threads. Isn't the level indicator connected to the cap?
Image

I can't find any loose wiring or anything that would plug into the cap if it was there. Do the 2013s+ have another sensor--perhaps an electronic one? I haven't ever seen a warning anywhere about low or missing fluid.

It looks like this cowl is supposed to have been cut all the way through in two places to allow the flap to lift up to get at the brake fluid reservoir and fuses. Neither area is cut and looks factory rather than some flashing that shouldn't be there. Should I cut them?
Image


This is making me wonder if it came like this from the factory missing cap and all!
I'm calling VW Corp. because I'm at a loss about how this is all put together.